Today we brought together several of the presenters from our upcoming one day conference on nosework, Know the Nose! They share what they wish they'd known sooner about nosework, as well as how they tailor their training and handling to the dog in front of them. 

 Transcription

Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today I have Aleks Woodroffe, Julie Symons, Kayla Dever and Stacy Barnett to talk about the upcoming Nosework One Day Conference happening on January 18th. Hi, all. Welcome back to the podcast.

All: Hey, how's it going? Hi, Melissa. Hi. Excited to be here.

Melissa Breau: I'm excited to have you guys. All right, so I want to start us off just by having you each share maybe just a little bit about you, maybe the nosework venues that you guys compete in, or at least the one you competed most, and then a little on your conference topic. Just kind of give people a sense of what you're here to talk about and maybe whose voice belongs to who. Aleks, you want to start us off?

Aleks Woodroffe: Sure. This is Aleks, my voice. I compete in AKC as well as NACSW with my two flat coated retrievers. I'm a full time scent work trainer as well as a judge for AKC and ASKA and becoming and along my way to be a certifying official with NASCW. Kayla's in my class, so it's kind of fun that we're both doing that. I'm also a canine massage practitioner and fitness trainer, so you might see me teaching some FDSA classes and workshops and stuff for fitness or massage. My conference topic is how to have success in multiple venues, especially upper levels.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. All right, Julie, you want to go next?

Julie Symons: Hi. Yeah. I'm a full time faculty member at FDSA and I have my own business Savvy Dog Sports, and do some local classes. I'm a retired AKC scent work judge and I train a lot of different sports with all my dogs. So I'm pretty busy doing agility, tracking, herding, and of course, nose work.

In the past, I've done obedience and conformation, you know, so those sports shift when I get new dogs and, you know, don't have some of my other dogs. But nose work tends to be, you know, the one that really popped to the top of the list of all my stuff. I just love it, you know, as well, all here are going to agree with that. I do focus more on NACSW just because of all the other sports that I do.

It's kind of insane and I just don't have a lot of time to do the other stuff. But I will do some local AKC trials that are here and there's some USCSS trials and I'll tend to maybe use those when my dog's young just to get a little bit more experience. Kind of like a warm up before going to an NACSW trial just to kind of see what I got with my dog going into a trial.

And my topic is tips for training and trialing a sensitive dog. So it's been fun going through that material. I mean, there's a lot of information that can, you know, can be reviewed in that, but I'm really happy with how it came out.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. Kayla.

Kayla Dever: Hi, I'm Kayla Dever. I'm the owner of Every Dog Knows Work in Rochester, Michigan, the metro Detroit area. I'm a NACSW certifying official and trial host for NACSW in Michigan.

Teach nosework classes in the Detroit area when I'm not doing nose work. I'm a nurse by trade doing oncology and primarily do NACSW with my dogs. I have three Elite champions, two labs and a Sheltie and competing at Summit and Elite with them currently, but have done AKC, CPE, UKC to high levels. Because that was before when I initially started. That was what was around in Michigan before I started hosting in that area.

The topic I'm going to be doing is sniffing about town. So, you know, how do you find locations to train at? How do you be a good human when you're at those places and a good representative of the sport? How do you set your dog up for success whenever you're training at novel locations? And that's. And that's new to you, why do it? You know, what's the benefit to all teams, whether you're going to compete or just doing nosework for fun and looking for the benefits it has for all dogs.

So yeah, that's a super fun topic. I love. It's a topic I'm passionate about. I love going and finding new places to train my dogs and I think it's one of the most fun aspects of the sport that we can do it anywhere and it's always different and it's not, you know, you don't need an obedience ring and you know, you can really train all over. So I'm excited to talk about it.

Melissa Breau: I think it's a fun one for kind of teams at any level. So yeah, that'd be good. Awesome. Stacy.

Stacy Barnett: Stacy Barnett, and I have Sensibilities Nose Work and I've been faculty for Fenzi Dog Sports Academy since 2015. And um, wow, that's like, wow. That I'm Sorry, I just did the math in my head. That's. It's just really kind of funny. Anyway, um, I compete in NACSW. I've competed now at the summit level with four different dogs and actually just earned my 12th title, which is really exciting.

I'm really, really excited. Absolutely love the competing part of it. I also have. I also do search and rescue with one of my dogs and recently certified her in wilderness area search. So I do that. And basically my conference topic is going to be on the virtual walkthrough because there's an amazing resource that is used more for taking a look at your search areas the next day. But if you look back at it historically, it can help to inform your training in really amazing ways. So my conference topic will be getting into how do we do that and how can we level up, leverage that for. For our training plans going forward.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. All right, so we've got quite a group here. Have you guys seen any impact, you know, either on your dog's search performance or on your training, you know, from doing different venues or multiple venues, kind of switching from one to the other?

And if folks have multiple venue options locally, are there any benefits to doing either more venues or kind of picking one to go all the way in? Julie, you want to start us off?

Julie Symons: Yeah. I personally haven't had an impact training in multiple venues. I think that's partly because I started in NACSW. I think going from NACSW to the other organizations is an easier transfer of the skills.

I tend to train with a lot of odor. I obviously train with lower amounts of odor, but I do a lot of odor bomb training and stuff. So AKC uses a lot of odor, and so a lot of people who go to that organization have a hard time with, you know, multiple hides with a high amount of odor, can have more fringing and just be overwhelmed with odor.

I do. I do find, though, people who maybe start with akc, there's a kind of a bigger jump into NACSW with the larger search areas. I think that that would be, you know, probably the biggest challenge and also that you had to have to be a little bit more accurate to, you know, to pass the lower levels. Whereas with AKC, it's nice that they're different. Right. Because AKC has it.

You know, you get the three legs to title, and in nacsw, you have to pretty much be perfect or few errors to get a title in the early levels. I actually think it's great to have more options because I think you get really Rusty, do you remember, Stacy, when we would trial like two times a year? Because that's all the trials that there were, you know, in our area, area.

And you just, every time you went to trial, you were like feeling like you were trialing for the first time and you just kind of made all those, like, mistakes again. And so when I know when I started trialing more, I was doing better. You know, you're just able to get more experience that because it's such a new sport that there isn't really anywhere else to go except for training on your own to kind of get that experience.

And so whenever I have somebody say, oh, I got into a trail this weekend and next weekend, is that too much? I'm like, no, because you're going to be like, in the zone. You're going to be like, totally in that trial zone. And so I think that having some of the other venues is great just to kind of, you know, test out some things you might want to try.

Just, you know, kind of just, just keep your, your team well oiled and everything. Not that I think you should try all the time as training is, is where it's at to be prepared for that. But I think it's a good thing that there's, there's more options out there.

Kayla Dever: Yeah, I mean, I think I know I started in CPE and UKC were what were in Michigan at the time.

Whenever I started a few years ago, there had been any CSW prior, but those hosts had kind of fizzled out or relocated. And so, you know, at the time, that was what was there. And so, you know, it was still good. I got experience and I had really generous dog as far as what I could get away with, which was nice. It was great to learn with him.

I think one of the things you just have to be thoughtful of, I think in any venue, but it's a little bit more. NACSW definitely does a really exceptional job of preparing their certifying officials. And the trial environment is very carefully cultivated. And I think in a way that some of the other venues are not. It's not bad. It just. You just need to be aware of it.

And definitely, you know, if I always recommend if people can go volunteer at a trial before you run in one, you're going to get an idea of what's happening. You can see what type of setups are happening, you can see the, the way that things are handled and you just, it just gives you a little bit more information. I think one of the things that I experienced early on Was doing a lot of trials at training buildings, and I felt like my dog was alerting on things that they were.

I was being told there wasn't a hide, but they would find a hide later or, you know, very hard alerts. And so I think as a novice handler, that was a little disconcerting at first. Cause I felt like, oh, my gosh, my dog who's really solid is like, what's he doing? And. And that now I just know that, like, okay, oder's kind of all over and my dog wasn't wrong and just give him a meatball and move on, you know?

But I think it's. It's one of those things just kind of be aware of. Definitely. For me, I. I very much love NACSW for a lot of reasons, but I think for. For a lot of folks, it's. It's a nice option to have. Have other options. You know, for some dogs, the area coverage and for some teams, the area coverage in an NACSW is. Is a barrier. But like Julie said, there's definitely some advantage to.

And I think how all of us kind of train is really looking at really solid foundations that will carry you across venues. And so laying, like, really focusing on the foundations that. That is going to set you up for success at NACSW is going to set you up for success in any of the venues. So, yeah, there's a lot to talk about there, but I'll stop it.

Melissa Breau: Fair enough. Stacy?

Stacy Barnett: Yeah, you know what? I think these are all really, really good points, and I'm hoping I can add to them. But although I really only trial in NACSW at this point, mostly because of time, but I don't generally train for an organization. I just train for good searching, and then I just choose where I'm going to trial. There are definitely differences. If you were to take a look at AKC and NACSW that go really beyond the amount of odor, but it's a result of the amount of odor.

So if we look at kind of the smaller search areas with AKC and the amount of odor that's used, and the fact that as you start to go up the levels, they use more and more hides, what you end up with are very few areas in the search area that are actually devoid of odor. So I think it's actually really helpful for teams to also think about kind of more the NACSW style of searching where there may be larger areas of the search area where there may not be any odor.

Because I think from a training perspective, if you can kind of prepare yourself for that. Where your dog is working both in and out of odor. I think what it does is it helps to educate the handler's eye a little bit more. Because one of the best ways to really learn how to read your dog is learn how to read your dog when they're not in odor. And if they're always in odor, then you're always only seeing one half of the story.

So if you can train quite a bit where the dog is also is not necessarily in odor the whole time, I think what you're going to see is a big bigger story about what your dog is trying to tell you about the hide behavior and the order behavior. And ultimately it's going to make you more effective as a handler. So, you know, I really encourage people not to necessarily train for the organization, you know, but also just think about what makes a really solid searching dog. And I really encourage people to train in situations where they're just not that, where the dog's not just inundated with odor.

Melissa Breau: So. Aleks.

Aleks Woodroffe: Oh, different venues seem to be like what I do all the time, jumping back and forth between AKC and NACSW. I think it's because I judge a lot and I compete a lot in nacsw, so I'm always going back and forth. Kayla mentioned this, but working multiple venues is really about your expectations and keeping an open mind that each venue has their own rules and way that the game is played.

Because you can't go into AKC and want it to be NACSW. NACSW has its really cool moments and a really cool environment for what it is. And same with AKC. AKC works a very different kind of game and a different kind of style. Because AKC is so very available for the majority of the country. That's often where people get started and they get the bug. So it's nice to have that so available and it almost becomes the playing kind of venue.

And I think all the other organizations tried, but at the same time they just didn't have the reach that AKC does. And so as a result, AKC clubs are doing scent work to build some money, which gives everybody else an opportunity to get into the sport. And playing by trialing and being able to do that, you do get those chops, those back to back to back to back weekends, which can be really good for the dogs to keep working odor, especially when you're not being tested and you're kind of in an environment where you don't have a lot of blind searches or Trainers that can help you out so they can almost become good for that, but at the same time, they do create habits.

And you get into these little habits that might be just for that venue, and then you forget that the other venue has different kinds of habits that you need. So then it's a little bit of a mental push for that. So it's, it's fun. I like having multiple venues for that purpose, but it's maintaining that expectations for what you're going into. Especially because, like, for example, a lot of people here are NCSW and you know what to expect.

Expect. It's very controlled type of an environment and setup versus AKC is club up. So every AKC event can be very different. So if you didn't like your experience with one club, maybe you want to go to a different club. It's a different style of the game and how you weighed where you search, where you're creating. All of those kinds of things can be different. So keeping an open mind for those kinds of things.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. Since you're all experienced trainers and competitors, I thought it might be fun to kind of ask you guys a little bit about what you wish you maybe knew when you first started out in the sport. Any missteps, mistakes, anything you wish you'd done differently or just kind of known from the start. Kayla?

Kayla Dever: I think your first dog. You know, obviously we all were blessed with a first dog.

Most of our first dogs were very kind to us as learners. And that's a wonderful thing about those first dogs. And no matter how far you did or did not get with them, they're special for a lot of those reasons. But I think really, for me, the thing that I'll never forget, taking my first FDSA class with Stacy, and it was her foundations class that she's running right now, actually.

But it was prior to that, I was in a local class with a very talented dog who we just were having a good time. And I was like, well, I retired him from our primary sport, flyball, before then. And Covid happened and I found FDSA and took this class and my mind was like, I just didn't know all there was to know. I think it's easy to get overwhelmed by a lot of it, but if you can, I think the biggest thing is find good instruction.

Don't and find good instruction. And. And it can be. There's. There's so many voices in the sport. It can be almost overwhelming to like, you know, it's like this person says this and this person says that, and you're like, especially when you're new and you first show up to a trial, and this judge told me this, and this person told me that, and you're trying. You're doing. You're just trying to.

To do the best you can. I think there's a lot to be said for, like, kind of listening, but finding one instruction, like finding an instructor who you enjoy working with and who can. You can. And get, you know, specific feedback to you and your team because it can be difficult to kind of tone out all of the cacophony of advice. And, you know, there's so many little moments where, yeah, that judge, their advice was not bad, but they're seeing this little tiny moment, you know, and not even across venues.

Like, you know, a judge will write something on your scorecard in NACSW and they saw one search, you know, that's not your entire journey or your entire history. So I think if there's, like, one thing that I would tell people is, like, find good instruction, whether it's online or in person. Find someone you trust and, you know, listen to one voice if you can take in other things, you know, learn from as many voices as you can.

But definitely there is a lot to be said for having an instructor who is helping you craft your team and develop as a. And who knows you and your dog. I think there's a lot to be said for that. Somebody who can see the bigger picture and knows you and has seen your dog and you through your journey. I think there's a lot to be said for that.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. Stacy?

Stacy Barnett: Well, first of all, I love Brennan. Like, yeah, what a sweetheart. What a sweetheart. That's Kayla's. Kayla's the dog she was referring to. And I also had a dog like that. His name was Judd. And when I start to think about what I wish I knew back then, you know, it really is amazing every time we start a new dog, how much more we learn. And I think it's important to make sure that we kind of give ourselves a little grace when we look backwards and we see some of the mistakes that we may have, may have made in the past and realize that every dog that we work is going to teach us something different.

If I look at my training now compared to when I started with my first dog, I would have to say I'm a lot more clear, and my criteria is a lot more clear. I have a very clear communication system with my dogs. And I think that's especially important considering the dogs I'm working right now are a Lot more high octane than. Than the dog, you know, than Judd was originally.

But I also look at, like, for instance, oh, my gosh, I'm thinking back to, oh, geez, he was a box smasher on white or tee boxes to the day he died. And it was just one of these things where I just made mistakes with my criteria in the very beginning. And it wasn't as big of an issue back then. I mean, it was. It was kind of, you know, early days.

And now if I saw that if it, I would be like, no, no, no, we have to stop that. Right? And, you know, and I went through a whole retraining process with Powder, and now she actually, she has amazing containers now. And it was a matter of just really learning how to communicate to her in a way that was a lot more clear and really driving home how important things like clear markers and.

And clear communication is and really making sure that she understands the difference between my. My voice, my praise, and my movement. So all of those things, I think for me, that's one of the things that it made a huge difference in my training now, as opposed to when I started.

Melissa Breau: Aleks?

Aleks Woodroffe: I think I've got two big things that I keep thinking about when I go back to when I started.

The first one is that it's better to assume my dog is working than assuming they're not working. Because when I started, I would always think my dog's distracted or just doing whatever, and they were working the whole time. And so believing them a little bit more and having that piece of it in my mind. And so then I was able to reward enthusiasm, which kept that joy for the game versus kind of nagging the dog.

When I got Tana, so she's my third dog in the sport, my big goal with her was, I'm not going to nag this dog. I wrote it down everywhere. I'm not going to nag my dog. And it definitely helped. We developed a way better relationship and the joy of the game, as well as all the other games we played, kind of maintained. The other piece of it is the enthusiasm.

Tana being very enthusiastic for the game. I ended up setting a lot of high heights kind of near the beginning because they were fun and she solved them great. But what happened is she started associating a lot of high odor, meaning it's just holding above her head with a high hide. And then it looks like a high hide. And I got. I wouldn't call it. I don't see many high hides here.

Out in Arizona, we don't set very many of them because often they go poof and they disappear. But I wasn't ever going to call any of them, but she still thinks about them. So I changed my whole tactic. And now with George, I train every high hide as sourceable. He can put his nose on every single high hide he works. And at the last trial he went, he solved, I think it was 8 or 10ft high on a balcony.

And he was fine. He solved it. He was perfect right underneath it, no time whatsoever. Because he always had the belief he could put his nose on source and he never actually had that idea. So that was my biggest, like, aha. Like, we're never training high hides of just like suspended in the air. Um, that's going to be something very well thought out because I just don't want to distrust my dog. I want a high to be a high.

Melissa Breau: Awesome, Julie?

Julie Symons: Yeah. So talking about our first nosework dog, so I just did lose Savvy, who I did start at nose work to over 10 years ago. And, you know, she was just like a well worn pair of jeans, right? Like, she was just my dog that had done a lot of other success in other sports. So she was a fun dog to learn with and she did make it really easy, although she definitely isn't.

Wasn't my best nosework dog. I think our newer dogs, we learn more and we do better. This is a great question, Melissa. So what I think I wish I knew, and I want to also answer what I wish my students would know now, but is what I wish I knew how capable our dogs were. They can find multiple hides, they can find close hides. They can understand hides that they found.

I think a lot of our training was, you know, feeding, repaying hides because, oh, my God, we have to pay odor. We can't not pay odor. And that could spiral out of control. So, of course, what I, you know, I know now I'm not going. I don't pay hides again. I start that from day one. I'm very clear on that criteria. But just, you know, knowing that they're so good at the sport and, and of course, dogs will vary with, with their, you know, ability, olfactory ability, but we don't give them enough credit to what they're able to do.

And I think we kind of tend to fix problems with handling and that kind of thing, not understanding if they're working like Alex said. So that's the one thing, and I do remember with Savvy, I think I worked on single hides for over a year. I just Got advice that you shouldn't have them have to pick between different odor plumes. And it was really hard for her to move on to multiple hides.

So one thing I do a lot differently now is I train advanced skill early. They're working blanks, they're working close hides, they're working multiple hides and things like that. So that's definitely a change I've made and, or wish I knew. But it's kind of okay that we didn't know that, right? Because I think like what Kayla said is there's so much information. Some people think it's, it's an easy sport, but there's a lot to it and I don't think we can possibly know everything.

So we have to kind of go through that process. So I wish that my students would trust the process because they want to either jump ahead, they don't kind of like want to listen or believe what you're saying is from our experience and why it it, you know, will make a difference. And you can't, like, you have to go through the time. Like you have the time has to go by for your dog to just gain that experience.

You can't rush the experience and the time, you have to let that time go through. You know, I have one of my students reminds me, I don't even remember saying this, that I should like a two year old dog. And I said a two year old dog is young in the sport. Don't expect it to, you know, be a master at it. So that would be one thing I'd suggest and something that Kayla said earlier about input from multiple instructors.

I actually, in my handling class right now at Fenzi, I actually wrote a lecture on that because it's something that I hear about and I feel bad for both the other instructor and being me on the receiving end because it's very difficult when you get multiple inputs. So I just wrote a lecture about you have to respect your instructor if you're paying them for their information. You have to be open and listen.

And it's hard though. And I think you have to kind of pick a few people to listen to because if you're always going all over the place, you are going to get yourself confused. What I always tell people is you have to just take what makes sense to you. That's just the bottom line. Just do your best understanding what people are saying and do what makes sense for you and for your dog.

So there's, you know, the saying of like Dr. Phil, you know, how's that working for you? Like yeah, yeah. I mean, I've had people come to me and say, well, I'm doing this now. And I said, well, well, why did that person say that? And they had no idea why, and they had. Nothing was broken. And I'm like, okay, you know, but I. I was trying to understand this.

One person didn't know why I'm. And there was somebody else that I was able to talk to later that I understood why they were saying that, and at least it's still not what I would do, but I could understand the logic of it. So, you know, and I, I understand that. I'll go to a seminar. And you're so overwhelmed, you don't think to ask the why. And then you walk away and you're like, oh, I don't really know why, you know, so it's.

It's. It's hard. Communication is hard and listening is hard and processing is hard. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that's especially true at dog sports seminars where you're trying to both manage your dog and listen to the instructor and change your behavior and learn new things and, and, and, and, and, and. Right. Oh, yeah. Like being a student, putting myself in other, you know, like, new. New sports or whatever.

And, and to be a student again is. Is good to know what it feels like again, to not know what you're doing. It also, like, I think it challenges us, too, as instructors. Like, when I hear sort of like, it's almost like the telephone game, like, what. What gets said and how it gets interpreted. And it's like, you know, you'll hear, like, something, and you're like, well, this is what you told me to do.

And I'm like, oh, that's how that was interpreted. That's not what I said or what I meant. I have to. I have to be clearer, you know, and it challenges you to, to be, to be clear with your. With your explanations.

Melissa Breau: Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk about strategy for just a second. So when it comes to training and trialing, I'm curious, how much does your handling strategy depend on the dog, kind of the dog that you're working or the dog in front of you kind of in that moment? And how much does it depend on the location or the environment, kind of what you're seeing around you? And Stacy, I'm sure you're thrilled that you get to go first for this one.

Stacy Barnett: The answer is just yes. I know you're saying how much is and how much you know this or that? And the answer is just yes. It's always for me, a combination of the dog in front of me and the search parameters.

And because really, kind of what I look at is first I handle the dog, then I handle the search. So I kind of need to know not only the dog I have in front of me in terms of like, is it powder, is it brava, is it prize, is it Y. Right. But it's also that dog in that day. Because. So, for instance, when I did the Summit trial in Georgia with Powder, she was on the very, very high edge of her arousal spectrum that I want to work her in.

Like on the very high Ed knew, for instance, if she went off leash, it would be terrifying. So she was on leash the whole time. Now, granted, if she had been. If it had been a couple weeks before when her arousal was just a little bit lower, I would have taken her off leash. So how I handle is really so not only specific for that dog, but it's also that dog on that day and even that dog on that day in that search.

And then I take a look at the search itself and perhaps especially at the summit level where she's competing, because we also do Elite Premiere, which is a lot of fun, by the way. These new NACSW levels are a blast. We have either searches where you have unknown number of hides, we have a range, or we have a known number. So for instance, based off of those parameters, if it's either a known number or a range, I'm going to do what I call what's called like a hasty.

That's kind of what we use. It's terminology that we use in search and rescue, which is basically mean, meaning rapidly move through the search area, kind of a first pass. So if we kind of think about it that way, like I might hasty my way through the search area because of the parameters, but also because I know that she works really well that way. So that would be kind of powder.

But then if I'm looking at another one of my dogs, I may work it slightly differently. So the answer to your question is really, from my perspective is just, yes, right. I kind of start with what dog do I have, you know, in front of me? What. What dog do I have on that day? What dog do I have in that search area? And then what search parameters do I have?

And then I may even flex once I'm in that search, and I may decide, you know what, I need you to kind of clean up anything, you know, that might be hanging out there. So here we go, off leash or whatever. If we have that opportunity. So some of that is a little bit moment to moment, but. But, you know, that's generally how I do it. Anyway…

Melissa Breau: Aleks?

Aleks Woodroffr: I'm with Stacy on that one, is it really depends on the dog and the search, and it's the combo of the two, because each search is really designed to test something else.

Sometimes you get to a trial and they're all kind of testing the same kind of thing. But often each search area, especially when we're talking like akc, let's talk about that venue, it's all different judges. Typically, you have a totally different flavor for each search. And so as a result, each search is testing something a little bit different, and that's going to push you a little bit differently for strategy.

My mind right now goes to George, my young guy, because he's my project and he's a lot of work. And so strategically for him, I'm going to choose to run things very differently based on his emotions, based on what's in front of me. If it's containers in front of me, it's still stressful for me. But often I'm doing a little bit less leash control. Less control on the leash itself because if I put too much tension, he's going to actually hit a container because his feet just fall because of the tension, versus, if it was an area search, I would be letting the line out a little bit more, but also a little more tension in the line and keeping connection the whole time because it helps him stay in the moment.

So each search is going to be so different. And then looking at my older girl, she's eight and a half, and it feels like old shoe. We go out there, it feels so good every time we do it. And it might be things like off leash at the beginning and then putting her back on once we want to settle in and find some harder problems. And that's kind of worn and easy kind of strategy that we always do every trial. And so it feels good.

Melissa Breau: Julie?

Julie Symons: Well, you guys have good answers. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Right. You know, and I have more methodical dogs than a couple of these ladies here. So I, you know, don't have those arousal spikes. But I do have a recent, more recent situation with Moxie, who developed sound sensitivity. And unfortunately, it's not really improved to the point where. Where she's working back at where she was originally.

But I've had to handle her definitely because of the sound sensitivities. You know, playing music and always keeping her on leash. And that. That was. I love running her off leash. You Know, because she has such a, you know, moderate, you know, I guess, arousal. And so she was never going to be crazy out of control or anything, but she was felt so much better unleashed. So the unleashed was, was.

It was a great way to run her. She was more efficient. I also might make changes. You know, of course, everybody said that the parameters that you have, the time, the number of hides definitely make. Make a difference. But you got to take into, you know, weather, you know, if it's hot, you know, you. There's some ways you may. You don't want your dog to over. Over, you know, heat or get too tired.

And so you might, you know, I like that term hasty. I've been calling it kind of a trajectory. Like, I kind of like I'm going to like, have a trajectory that I'm going to take my dog through and get them somewhere. So I think that that's strategic, you know, based on weather conditions or how your dog is doing. Yeah. And, you know, you know, you guys will all agree with us.

Isn't this one of the number one questions you get from your students? And it's very hard to answer because it's so situational. And it's not even just situational. If you can look at the walkthrough, you don't know the parameters yet until you get there. And then, like you said, how your dog is that day. But I would say, you know, besides maybe the arousal of or the weather, we probably have a general, you know, understanding of how our dog is going to.

Going to work and run. So hopefully we don't have. We're not doing huge, you know, swings of strategy, but it is often just in the moment too. Right. You can have all these plans before you start, but then you have to just be so present in the moment when you're searching and you have to just, you know, hold it together and make all those decisions in that moment.

Whether you stay on leash but off leash, whether you, you know, need to cover another area or just, you know, let your dog to work it out, that's what's really hard to describe and to bottle up. And it's practice and it's tough. Yeah, it's tough. I actually think, I think if we just. If handlers maintain good mechanics. Stacy mentioned the communication and reinforcement strategies. If you keep a lot of that thing the same, then that's something you don't have to worry about and change.

Right. And, you know, the good leash skills and the reinforcement strategies and start routines and things like that are going to go A long way of being very similar and then you only have some of the big hitters that you might have to strategically decide what to do differently. But yeah, I also liked Alex, how you said it is so true. Each search is testing something else and we don't always know what it's testing until it's done right.

I mean a lot of times we won't know what our. We could have done a different strategy if I knew where all the eyes were. Obviously where the eyes were, you would have a different strategy. But. But yeah, so yeah, it's a good question and I think it really is as we're all agreeing, it's that day, that search.

Kayla Dever: Yeah. I think like I remember when I was during my elite journey with Brennan and what I realized is that whenever you think you've got it figured out, you're going to have a search that takes you back to the drawing board and makes you reevaluate your hand.

Your strategies in moment to moment with each individual dog. I think really the biggest thing and I think there's just no substitution for it. Like you talked about like, you know, that well wore a couple of you mentioned, you know, that's my dog. Like well worn pair of shoes or well worn pair of jeans and what makes them. That is Miles on the team. Like, like it's just Miles on the team.

I mean how many hundreds of searches have you done with that dog where you are that in tune and able to make those decisions that are not even a, sometimes not even a conscious thought they're feeling. It's how it, like it's just you're in a free fluid state with that dog and you're not even nervous. You're not even that nervous either. No, it's just, it's. But that's the thing.

It's Miles on the team and there's no shortcut for that. There's nothing that is pretty about it. There's nothing that like there's no amount of money you can pay or seminars you can take or people you can teach or you know, people who can take your dog and train it for you or any of that. Like it's really, it's Miles on the team and I think that's the, like that's what makes you, that's how you learn.

You know, whenever your student asks you, oh, should I have gone on or off leash? Well, what, what does your experience tell you? Like what does your. In training and in trialing and you know, looking for those opportunities like early on, you know, some of it's going to be dictated, you know, like early in the early days, like right. A lot of us start foundations off leash, independent building, driving.

And so for a lot of folks, that's kind of their comfort zone initially. So they'll take their dog off every chance they get because that feels like can't get in their way. And then they'll just, you know, and early on, whenever there's one hide out there, that might be the right strategy. Right. And then as the game evolves, as you move up levels and the game changes to now, you're not just finding hides, you're clearing areas and you're, you know, the, the time restrictions get tighter and your communication and the, the odor signatures are different and more complex and everything, it all, it all evolves and, and there's just, it's miles on the team.

It's just, it's just part of that, that journey and learning I think too, you know, looking for those opportunities whenever you're a newer handler to feel comfortable learning and experimenting. Like I know my first NW3 attempt I did with my younger lab Davey. You know, every. Just because you've titled with other dogs does not mean that you are new. Like this is a whole new dog, this is a whole new team.

You're learning. This is, this is that very brand new pair of shoes that is not worn in yet. And you are still learning. And I remember I, you know, even though I was at working well into the elite level with the previous dog, I had, you know, I was nervous and I got a no in containers and then went out and just totally mishandled vehicles. So right. Like that first two searches, no mist hide, you know, and it's like, okay, well that sucks.

I'm in Maryland, I'm from Michigan. I drove eight hours from here. But you know what was wonderful? That was his first NW3. So that means I'm not titling that day, but that means now guess what? There's two interiors that are up to that are coming up that I don't really have any stake in this game. Now I can just go, let's experiment, let's learn, let's see what I got.

And you know, I was able, that was a great opportunity for me to be able to take them off leash. And he did wonder, he worked really well. And so that was, you know, a way to, you know, kind of make a win out of what was felt kind of like of a trial day. So, you know, looking for those opportunities to learn about your team in those like less you know, the stakes are not as high in those moments, but really, there's no shortcuts for the time.

Julie Symons: Yeah. And something just to add to that is, you know, I know it's. It's heartbreaking when you're not doing well. And I know I've known people who have left, and I'm like, you could have gotten so much experience. I remember I'm on a Drac's nose or three. He got, like, two no's in his first search. The first search out, I got two no's. And the rest of the day, I decided that I was gonna, like, really, you know, sharpen up what I wanted to work and, like, do the opposite of what I ever did.

And I had the. I had a clean. I had a clean. I was clean the rest of the day, and it felt so good. And I. And that experience is what made my next trial, you know, better.

Stacy Barnett: I had a similar experience with Judd and NW3. And I had, like, interiors. This is back when we had to do three interiors in a row. And interiors were always this thing that I was, like, terrified of because we had these three searches in a row and everything.

And I had never really done that well in interiors. And I had gone to an NW3 and I had gotten a no in containers and a no in it in an exterior. And at that, you had to be perfect. Anyway, so I'm like, you know, the day's over. So I just went in, like, let's just have fun in interiors. And it was the best NW3 interiors I think I've ever done.

I had ever done to that point with him. I think I got, like. I don't know, I got my first placement ribbon and an NW3 interior and everything. And I just remember, like, how freeing that was. That really was. It was amazing.

Melissa Breau: That's really well into our next question, guys. So when a competition search goes sideways, I'd love to talk a little bit about kind of what are the most likely culprits? What causes things to go sideways? And then how do you kind of evaluate that after the fact, to create a new training plan, you know, to kind of ensure that things go better the next time you're out there? Aleks, you want to start us off?

Aleks Woodroffe: Sure. When they go sideways. So if they're. If you're still holding on and things aren't, like, bad. They just feel bad. Normally, it's because we're taking over and we're getting nervous and we're starting to hold on harder, and maybe we're thinking it's gotta be a high hide.

My dog doesn't know high hides. I'll go back to it. And so then I start presenting or make things up. And guess what? That gets you in trouble, right? Letting go, watching the dog. Let the dog tell the story of the search. And that often gets you out of some of those problems. But what if it goes bad and you get a no and okay, we're out. NACSW out.

George has given me a lot of opportunities to experience this because he's just like, he likes to push every button, have joy in every search. But I've really taken advantage of any CSW's ask for information because it means the rest of the day can be a really fun training experience. I've had some of the best trial days asking for information because, hey, my confidence got shot a little bit.

Or we really struggle on containers. Already shot it in exteriors or something. We got to know and I think we missed a hide. So I'm just going to ask it for info on containers. Okay, there's two hides. Okay, perfect. I know when to call finish. We can work, we can solve the problem and I can get better at watching my dog or maybe I need to know where they are.

I did Elite premiere with him. He did FEO while I was running Tana and it was fantastic because the first search I asked where they were, he nailed them. I didn't even need to ask. He was doing his own job. So then as the day progressed, I asked for less and less information. By the third search, I didn't ask anything and I was looking at times and placements and stuff.

He would have done very, very well. He would have been placed at that trial. So it builds a little bit more confidence and a little bit more joy of the day. AKC doesn't really give you that option to ask for information, but you just have to realize each search is totally separate and you don't have to have a perfect day. Each piece is separate from each other. And so it allows you to say, okay, my interiors went to crap, we were out in the first room.

But that means I can still go have fun in exteriors or containers. Does really good for me. We're going to see if we can get first place. Right. So you can start changing how the day goes. And maybe the goals shouldn't be tied to placements and things that are out of your control and how other people might do that day, making them tied to something that personally, that I can manage a little bit.

So if the day feels like it's going badly. I'm going to say, okay, my goal today was going to be to watch my dog. Every subtle little change of direction, that's what I'm going to watch today, or I'm going to maintain my leash. It's never going to hit the ground when a reward, that is my one goal for the day. And so that makes me improve as a handler.

And so I feel like I come out of the trial day with a lot more and it feels good even if the day goes sideways.

Julie Symons: I would definitely say that over handling is a cause, a culprit of search going sideways. And it's not only just over handling, but then it's the putting pressure on the dog to keep working when they're maybe just not able to. So when they sense our nerves and then we're like nagging them, as Alex said earlier, that's when I start seeing dogs have displacement behaviors and then the people want to figure out how to solve those issues.

When it's really is about your mental state, your, your overall being as a handler and just needing to be a little more patient and trusting the dog. I think the other culprit is sometimes just teams aren't prepared. You know, that's probably pretty standard, but like, you know, the novel areas is what makes, I think, nose work the hardest part. I think it's the most exciting part because I think you have dogs who start to really, to really, you know, can like crave and get off on those search areas, like pulling to new doors and going to new places.

But novel areas and dealing with distractions can usually be how a search goes sideways for dogs. Either just, you know, from worry or from just being, you know, just distracted by people or noise or whatever. I mean, and so if it's training, then I'm going to abort and stop and trialing. You should do the same thing if it's really, you know, severe. But you can also salvage. You could salvage a search by pausing and stopping.

And this is probably one of the only sports I know we can. You can do this is just stop and love on your dog. Stop and do some tricks, give them some treats. And I recently we've had some local teams here do just that. And then they, they resumed and the dog had a great day and like titled and stuff. And we forget to just take stop for a moment, check on our dog, kind of break them out of whatever is they're worried about and get them moving.

You know, it's getting them moving and, and not freezing up. And just supporting them. And again, if people didn't know this and nose work, there's no rule against that. You can whip out a toy, you can, you can give your dog food anytime. You can restart the search. You know, it's just going to take up time. So that's, you know, what I think of the culprits and how I would address those in a nutshell.

And then, you know, the goals would be to, like what Alex said is you have, your goals can only be what you can control. You can't say, I'm not going to get any no's. You can't say. But you can say, I won't blurt alert too early. You know, that would be a good goal. And say, I'm going to have a little bit more. I'm going to breathe, I'm going to take a breath before I call alert.

But process goals. Things that you can, you know, you can change, like leash handling. I'm going to, you know, make sure I do good leash handling. I've been playing around with these, you know, my, the, the three P's that I've been repeating to people is being present, being patient and being purposeful. So the three P's are kind of my mantra now. And if you are those three things, if you can go into a search saying those three things, I think you're going to be able to control those and you're going to have a pretty good search if you're present and observing.

You know, somebody else mentioned that about, you know, learning to read your dog and being patient to not overtake and to also be purposeful. So if you are going to make some strategic changes, you're very purposeful with that and those are things that you can control. And yeah, I find I have found teams having a lot of success and maybe that's calming them down or making them more relaxed going in with that.

And then like we said earlier, each search is something new and I think that's a really kind of hard thing to embrace because we are very results oriented and we really get down when things don't go well. But I would just look forward to the next search and, you know, and I'll create some new goals and just keep practicing.

Melissa Breau: Kayla?

Kayla Dever: Yeah, I think, you know, you mentioned just like people being underprepared I think is very common.

Right. I think one of the things that's great about the sport is there's kind of a, you can get in at novice levels pretty with not a lot of training and do well, fairly Quickly. And then people get excited and it's fun and you get ribbons. And then people choose to move up too quickly or they don't really fully realize the skills that are being tested at each level or how much of a skill jump there might be.

And that can kind of set. You can set you up for failure before you've kind of even gotten there. So I think one of the things, I think that a lot of us commonly say, but really is I tell my students all the time, really, I am training for at least the level above the level that I'm currently showing at, ideally, even a little bit ahead, even further than that.

So that whenever I do decide to test my training, I know that this training is very fluent and solid because I'm working well past this level that is being tested. And then, you know, how do you know what's being tested? I think, you know, really looking at, you know, like Stacy's going to talk about the walkthroughs, like, those are great insight into the types of skills that are being tested at NACSW.

The rule book spells out a certain amount of it. Like, whenever it says these are the things that might you're going to see, or you could see at this level, expect to see them at that level, right? It will tell you hides up to this height, distractions of this type in containers, you know, like, it's, you know, what types even just like, you know, you know, you're gonna have vehicle searches, you know, you're going to have interiors, you know, you're going to have exteriors.

So, you know, getting out to those novel locations, knowing having a dog who's very prepared to be fluent in new locations that they've never been before. So those are all like, I think like the meat and potatoes of stuff that you can do to set yourself up for success is really train past the level that you're going to test and know what you're being tested on. It sounds silly, but there's definitely a lot of people who, you know, knowingly or not, you know, show up and don't quite realize what was in the rule book or what could be tested on that day.

So I think that's, you know, one of the big. The big things, um, and definitely the mental management side of it is like, huge. Especially as you move up the levels, it becomes even more and more impactful. You know, when you're new, you're nervous, and all of that is normal. And I think, like I said before, that's. That's miles on the team. And for me, the thing that made me work through trial nerves was just exposure.

Therapy was really just the more I trialed, the more I was. I got used to functioning in that state. And the more I got desensitized to it and the more it became like, this is just how it is. And now I don't even. I mean, the last summit I did, I don't even know that I could tell you. I felt very nervous at all, which is exciting. But that's just exposure, you know, but the mental management side of it, being able to run your race, you know, that's one of the.

I think the great things about nose work is that, yes, there are levels that you're. I mean, you're sort of being. You're competing with other people, but really you're competing with yourself and your team and doing the best you can on that day. Anyone else, you know, you can't. You have no control over what anyone else is doing. And so, you know, it can be very intimidating as you move up levels and, you know, you show up to a summit and there's very high level competitors there.

And, you know, these are really great teams. And it can be very easy to say, like, you know, oh, there's no way that we're, you know, doing like, that was terrible. Oh, my gosh, you know, oh, I only found two of the known five hides and this is. The world is ending and this is terrible. And, you know, there's all these amazing people and then, you know, but the reality is they're all having the same thoughts as you are.

All of us are in the same boat and you, you know, they may not have the, like, in order for you to have your best day, you have to have your day. You can't. You have no control over anyone else's. So I think for me, that was like one of the most. One of the things that I really, really try to focus on anytime I, like, find myself feeling that is like, snap out of it.

It is just you and your dog. Every time you step to that line, it is just you and your dog. There is no one else in the room, no one else matters, and no one else has control over that moment. And so you just have to kind of be able to take those little. It's a lot of mental compartmentalization of, like, here's this moment. This is the. I literally imagine, like, taking boxes out off of a shelf and it's like, okay, this search.

And like, when I'm doing like, Summit or Elite, I quite literally Will, Okay, I get out of that search and maybe I give myself three minutes to think about it. Whatever it was, I'm going to think about it. And then that time is done. And I will envision wrapping it back up and putting it up on a shelf. And then I take down a new box and I will go watch my walkthrough for that search.

Like, okay, next search. New box. Next search. What's happening next. And so those, like, little, like, mental tricks are definitely. But really it's about, like Julie said, it's about being present and in the moment and running your race.

Melissa Breau: Stacy?

Stacy Barnett: Yeah, I think when things go sideways, it's usually one of two things. It's either skill related or it's kind of handler, like headspace, right? So it's one or the other.

And, you know, if it's skill related, okay, well, that's usually preparation. And a lot of times I find that if it's a skill, it's really interesting. If you look at what the skill is. A lot of times you'll see people kind of avoid that skill. So it's kind of like, like. So for instance, like, containers. Like, you know, people are. A lot of people are afraid of containers, so they'll avoid containers, and they don't want to practice containers, and they just want to kind of like grin and bear it and get through it in a trial.

And I guess my advice for that is take the bull by the horns. Like, you have to sometimes just decide to like something. I know back when I authored my container class, it was one of these things where I actually used to hate containers. I'm just using this as an example, right? And I just decided, one day I'm gonna love containers. I'm just gonna decide to love containers.

And it was a decision point. And then I ended up just really breaking that skill down into a lot of different pieces. And it turned out I did decide to love them, and I actually do really enjoy them now. But it's one of those things where if you have a skill gap, gap, you have to make the effort to close the gap. So if you're always going to kind of go and cross your fingers and just kind of hope for the best, it's not going to get better.

So from a skill gap, if you've got a skill gap, you either choose to close it or you choose to ignore it. If you choose to ignore it, you're probably going to suffer for it, you know, later on. From a handler, heads like that, your headspace, that's something entirely different. We were talking, you know, Kayla was talking about mental management quite a bit. That's a huge piece of it.

And the higher up you get in the levels, the more and more this starts to play out. Handler arousal is real. It is a real thing. It's one of these things where we. I mean, we're always thinking about the arousal for our dogs, but when we realize that when we come out of a search and we can't remember maybe where the hides were or maybe we don't remember them in the moment, and we're like, did we call that?

Did we not call that? That's all handler arousal. So we have to find a way to quiet our minds and take our time and actually be a little bit more patient when we're searching so that we can really observe the area. Things like overthinking. Overthinking is a really big culprit of making mistakes. It's when we. All of a sudden, we get in our heads. So this is when.

If we. If people. People talk about taking over. Over for the dog. Well, it's. That's when we're overthinking and we get into our heads. That's when we're at risk of doing that. So we need to kind of think about how do we. How do we get out of our heads a little bit? And that, I think, is one of the hardest things to do as you go up the levels.

So that's a little bit of a harder thing from, like, a training plan to try to fix. I think that really does come down to a little bit from a mileage perspective, learning how, you know. Yeah. You know, breathing all that kind of good stuff. Like, that's really important. Smiling is huge, like, all those things. But you can't really replace the time and experience. And I think that's a really big piece of just being able to kind of go and be able to do the compartmentalization that Kayla's talking about.

You know, we had a search at the last summit where, you know, there's always, like, a twist. One of the searches, every trial is always a twist. And, you know, if you've done enough summits that you probably can't title without getting the bonus. So getting to the line and knowing that you might have a title writing on that search, there's a lot of pressure there. And I think it's one of these things, like, that's an example of needing to be able to compartmentalize so that you're not putting that extra pressure on yourself when you're trying to run a search like that because it's really the only way to get through it.

So I think it's one of those things that the skills that kind of develops a little bit as you go through the levels. The skills, honestly, like technical skills, that's the easy stuff. You know, closing that, we have to choose to close those. But from the handler headspace and all that, that, that just takes time.

Melissa Breau: All right, so you guys mentioned goals a couple of times in there, and I want to kind of stop and go back to that a little bit and talk about that for a minute.

So how do you kind of set goals for yourself when it comes to nose work? Are you, you know, thinking about skills? Are you thinking about competition stuff? Are you think, you know, what are you thinking about when you're thinking about goals? And what tips do you have for listeners on how they should choose what they want to accomplish either in a given search or in a trial or with a particular dog, kind of. How are you looking at that? What advice are you giving? What do you wish students were thinking about all of that? Julie?

Julie Symons: Yeah, I did mention a little bit about just some of the goals for, you know, the search. Right. Just to be present and purposeful and patient and things like that. You know, if you're talking about, you know, training, I, you know, I think, think it's, you know, learning and learning about your dog and learning about, you know, how odor works and just being open to how, how dogs solve things.

They don't, you know, they don't see it in the way that we, we see things. So I just think our goals have to be, you know, with any sport, you're learning the skills and then you're learning your dog and, you know, how they, how they work with that. I like what Aleks said earlier was, you know, you let the dog tell you the story of the search area, you know, but I don't know if I have anything else to add there.

And I just, I just think it's. It's gotta not be. I want to find all the hives. I guess I think that's a good goal. You know, we all haven't talked about that one yet, is that we all want to find. We all want to find all the hides, and we always think there's more hides. And I, I think we have to, you know, get rid of, you know, confirmation bias and not think what a judge or a CO might set.

Even though you can have some, you know, you can, you know, look at the debriefs and I think that's, that, that's good to know in the back of your head. But we can sometimes make assumptions. But I would just have to say to let go of finding all the hides and just enjoying being at the end of the leash. And I always tell people that you have the best seat in the house at the end of the leash with your dog.

And just. You want to use those searches as learning because our dog is our best student on how odor works. And that's why as judges, those of us who judge, I think all of us do or, or teach. Teach or judge. Teach or judge or host. Because you're going to see a lot when you're hosting. You learn so much from just watching this many dogs work like a search area. And so, yeah, so that's what I had additional for that.

Melissa Breau: Kayla?

Kayla Dever: Yeah, so I think, I think there's kind of two parts to this, right? Like there's like your goals, like in the moment in a search, training goals or like, you know, what's, what are, what are your goals? I think all of us would agree, like for. I think it's good and functional to have like solid goals as far or tangible goals as far as, you know, I would like to get this title or I'd like to move to this level and that kind of thing.

I think that's okay and reasonable and it's okay to be, to want that. But I think the way to get that is to think about those performance based goals, those things like, okay, I want to get a summit title. What does that look like? What do I do to get that? What does my actual performance look like in each individual search throughout a trial weekend? What is my, what does my training goals look like?

How do I prepare for that? You know, it's not, you don't just show up and take your ribbon, you know, so there's a lot that happens leading up to it. So I think it's being able to really honestly, it's almost like reframing your brain in a way to like think about to take that long term goal off and say and be able to see it and break it into okay, what does that mean for me in this search?

What am I working on? I think some of it is just like active. I think it's a lot of active, intentional trying to formulate those purpose driven goals. Each search initially I'll have students do this even whenever they're running searches in class. What's your goal for this search? And it needs to be a performance based goal. It's not I find the hides. It's. I'm going to take a breath before I call alert.

I'm going to try not to crowd my dog or, you know, I'm gonna stay, you know, six plus feet away from my dog, or I'm gonna stay behind my dog shoulder, you know, whatever it is. But they need to so that you can start, like, teaching your brain how to even think that way. Because most of us are not. We're not conditioned to think that way as a society.

We're thinking about the end goal and not all the pieces that go into getting that end goal. So I think it's a lot of that and being like, yeah, yeah, okay. I want that. And that's cool. That's okay. I think sometimes we can be a little like. And this coming from someone who, I mean, we all deeply love this sport for a lot of reasons that are very personal to us and our dogs.

But, like, if we're competing, we want to do well, and that's okay. But I think the other side of it, you know, yes, we need to break these down into. Into actual, perceivable things. But also for me, a lot of it is with my goals. Thinking always about, like, what am I really doing this for? Why do I do this sport with my dog? Whenever something doesn't go well, like, remember, okay, did my dog have fun and did I have fun?

Did my. You know, I remember screwing up a NW3 on my very last search, which always stings whenever you've, like, been perfect all the way through the day. And that last search, like, you dropped the ball. And I remember talking, calling my mom on the drive home, being this is all mad at myself. And she said, okay, did Gaby get his meatballs? And I said, yeah. And she's like, okay.

I think he's probably okay. So, you know, remembering that in the end, it is Q tips and their dogs and they got their meatballs, and it's all. It's all good.

Melissa Brea: Stacy?

Stacy Barnett: Yeah. I think we need to, you know, thinking about our goals a lot of times. I think people sometimes have goals that almost depend on other people, and we need to be careful about that. So as an example, like a summit title, right?

You have to place in a certain. Just. Just an example, like the certain top, you know, placements in a trial. But honestly, that goal is dependent on everybody else. So you're only ever able to affect your own performance. So for me, you know, yeah, that. That's. That's a nice. That. That's, you know, it's awesome, right? But you also have to kind of think about what do you have to do to kind of manage the, you know, how do you handle the dog in front you?

So my goal might be make sure that my dog's in the right arousal state. My goal might be make sure that I'm present in every search. My goal might be to make sure that I cover the entire area. And there, oh yeah, there's that room over there that I better get in that room. And you know, things like that where I'm trying to look at smaller pieces of that where I can look for how do I build success in smaller components?

Because when you start to put those smaller components together, that's when you get the get overall success. And if you look at something and again, some of it's just top of mind right now. Just because I've been. My dogs are more like at that level right now. But, you know, that's eight searches. So when you start, you've got to really like, my goal is can I keep it together for eight searches?

Things like that, where I'm not looking at the outcome. Like, I'm not saying my goal is to win the summit, right? That may end up being the outcome. And if it is, that's awesome. But that's not actually the goal. You know, the goal is to make sure I've got a dog on the start line that I have, I have focus, that I have a dog that, you know, it isn't spiraling up, right.

That I'm maintaining that line of communication. And I think if we can keep our goals kind of at the more qualitative level, I think we ultimately end up more successful on the back end. So that's what I would suggest to people is kind of think about how do you have goals around the quality of your searching.

Melissa Breau: Aleks?

Aleks Woodroffe: I think the piece that we really haven't touched yet maybe is the training goals for day to day kind of training.

What are we doing? How do we get there? How do you build those progressions to get to those spots? I find myself going back to smart goals, which seems kind of like, oh, it's so structured. But smart goals are specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time bound. And normally I get stuck on the S, which is fine because the S is normally where the problem is specific because. And I did this recently with a friend of mine on our podcast is, okay, what's the goal?

And when we started asking the questions like my dog needs to be better with pooling. So we Asked questions, was it you watching pooling? Was it your dog actually working out of pooling? What was the actual piece? And we started diving down into it. It became a very actionable training goal that we could actually work on. Compared to my dog needs to be better on containers. Well, containers general is not my problem.

It's maybe that he's stepping on them, maybe that he's not sniffing each one. Right. And so once I start, start diving down into all those little details, I can start coming up with maybe four training goals. And if I can work on those, maybe once a week, twice a week, I'm actually going to get some really nice results. That feels really confidence building. And then I can go into a trial and test it and see how it goes and the results will speak for it.

And if they don't, great test to go. Okay, here's the new hole. Now I can build my new goal around that and build towards it. I like those long term goals because I think they give you the direction and like the motivation and the motivation to keep doing it. But then it's those little goals that give you those little cookies, the click to repeat so that we can actually want to keep doing it.

And I think those are pretty important. And 2025, it's the beginning of the year. It seems like a great time to kind of come up with a few of those little training goals that we can kind of play around. Around with.

Melissa Breau: Absolutely. All right. I want to give you each just a chance to maybe share any final thoughts or maybe key points that you kind of want to leave folks with.

Maybe just a takeaway. I think it's been a great conversation. There's tons in here. So maybe just if we can drill it all down to one or two tips, that would be awesome. Kayla, you want to start us off?

Kayla Dever: Oh, gosh. Question on the list. I know. Yeah, I think, I think, think quite honestly not to get like sentimental, but as someone with a couple senior dogs, like, enjoy the journey.

Like, it's. All of it is good. All of it. The good, the bad, the yeses, the nos, the, the, the miles. Just all of it is good.

Melissa Breau: Stacy?

Stacy Barnett: Yeah, you know, I'm going to try not to get sentimental also. But on those same video, that same line, listen to your dog. You know, this, this is a game. Let's straight up. I'm just going to say that this is a game that we play.

We do this for fun. And I know a lot of us are really serious about it, myself included, but it's still a game. And if the other end of that leash isn't having even more fun than you, then you need to reassess some stuff, right? You know, go out, enjoy it and really embrace the fact that this is, this is time you get to spend with your dog.

And it's really special. Alex. Yeah, Kind of along the same lines. Tana was diagnosed with cancer a year ago, and so I got a whole year of playing Summit and Masters and we got all these titles and felt so good, but it was all the memories that we could do. It was the year that I didn't know I would get and the friends, the friends that we get to hang out with and enjoy and experience, especially at the upper levels, you don't get to see each other very often.

So it's really kind of nice to have those moments still, so appreciate all of them. Like, not just in the search, but around the parking lot too. It's a special sport that we actually get to be with each other and enjoy people as people without, like, watching each other search. So it's almost like you get more people as a result.

Melissa Breau: Julie?

Julie Symons: Yeah. Gosh, you guys gave great, you know, great stories.

No, they were wonderful. What two things came to mind for me was one, just about the community of nose work, and also just about the conference, but for the community. We had a little get together with our local community and people who get their champions every year will have an event and they, they all talk about their experience and, you know, show maybe their best or their, or their search.

They struggled in on their way to their journey. And one particular person would, would, Would enter far away and, and travel far away. And she went to one out of town. I'm in Rochester, New York, and she went to, like, Indiana or something, and she didn't know anybody but the host. And this might ring a bell, but the host had gotten in a bad, had like, car accident and was in the hospital.

So, like, the whole community, like, rallied and helped keep the trial going. And they, you know, had raffles to help and, you know, help with the bills and, and she just was so touched. And then she went to another trial in our area. I think it was when she finished her championship and there was somebody who was there that she knew wasn't trialing in, but she drove somebody, her friend to the trial.

I think she had had some surgery, so she couldn't drive, so she just was struck. So she didn't even talk about her, her, her, her dog. She talked about the Noser community and her travels, going to different trials and, and then afterwards, she came up to me, she said, oh, I'm sorry. I didn't like, thank you, or whatever, you know, and. But she just was just so touched and she wasn't, you know, somebody who ever really, you know, posted a lot about, you know, her titles and stuff.

And so that was really touching to hear. And then. And, And I remember I went to my first few trials, I didn't know anybody and. And I still enjoy meeting new people because now you kind of know everybody and it's nice to go somewhere. And, you know, I remember one of my first. My first one of my neighbors, my parking lot neighbors. We, you know, you stay in touch with them, you know, and, and you just remember those people from the parking lot.

And I used to always hated that we had to keep dogs in the car and they couldn't come out of the car a lot. It's just become like the parking lot has become kind of really special now that I don't even really like to bring my crates into other, you know, venues. If I'm doing agility, I mean, I do it, but, you know, it's like, oh, I kind of like just working out of the car now, you know, so funny because I, like, I hated it at first.

And then the other thing. Yeah, so that, that, that, that's actually a really nice. I should just probably end it there. But the other thing I just wanted to mention about, you know, you know, my presentation and just as nosework as a whole, you know, the things that we're going to go over, I'm assuming I can speak to everybody, is. It's not insurmountable. It's. It's doable. Like, the things I'm going to go over are very doable.

You know, sometimes it seems, you know, so hard. How do you get your dog to be so distracted? Or how do you help your dog who needs support? And, and these strategies and tactics are very, very simple and very doable. So I'm very excited to share that to, to show that, you know, we can do it. We can all. We can all support our dog as needed. We can find the resources for training and.

Yeah, so nothing should ever feel overwhelming for training the sport. Definitely there's challenges in the, in the search, you know, setups and parameters, but, you know, everything that we're training is at, at our fingertips and, and there's just a lot of support, as you can tell already from this conversation, of people in the community to, to help as needed.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. It's a good place to round things out.

So thank you all so much for coming on the podcast. This has been fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. It's been great talking with you guys. Yeah, really has. All right. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week. Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in itunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by BenSound.com the track featured here is called Buddy. Audio Editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.

 Credits

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!