Jumps make up a significant percent of every agility course - yet so often they receive only a small percentage of our training time. If you've ever wondered what jump grids are, how to teach your dog collection, or whether cavalettis might improve your dogs performance... give this episode a listen!  

 Transcript

Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today we'll be talking to Ashley Escobar about her upcoming class on jumping grids and Cavaletti Pole games. Hi Ashley, welcome back to the podcast.

Ashley Escobar: Thanks for having me.I'm excited to be here.

Melissa Breau: I'm excited to chat. Do you want to start us off and just kind of remind folks a little bit about who you are, who your current dogs are, maybe what you're working on with them?

Ashley Escobar: Yes, I'm Ashley Escobar. I have a whole house full of dogs. I currently have Pink and Teal, which are half sisters, my two up and coming border collies, and I have my retired girl who's my have been there, done that dog, my mockpock, obedience dog, everything, you name it, Star.

And then I recently had a litter of Aussie puppies that are related to Star. And I have kept a puppy from that litter too. So I have Summit now and both of my children have agility dogs that are up and coming as well. And then my husband of course, but that's my household.

Melissa Breau: Fantastic. So I mentioned we want to talk about kind of jumping stuff at the beginning and I think when most of us, you know, when we first think about agility or other sports that involve jumping, we kind of think, eh, how hard can it be? Kind of point the dog at the jump or call them over the jump or lure them over the jump and kind of figure they'll figure it out and things are good. And can you talk a bit about the other factors that actually go into building lovely jumping and you know, why they're important?

Ashley Escobar: I think that you're right. Most of the time we just assume that the dog will move over the object that is in front of them.

But I think there's so much, well, I know there's so much more to it than just the dog hurtling their bodies over an obstacle in front of them. There is collection involvement, there's relative collection, there's extension, there's going to be lead changes, there's going to be directional changes, there's going to be jumps that present other challenges like our triple jump or the broad jump or a jump, the tire.

There's other components to it, but all of that is presented to the dog with the understanding that they also will keep the bar up. So I feel that there's Just so much involved with jumping even though it looks so simple because it's just hey, hurdle your body over this bar and by the way, keep it up in the air and go as fast as you can while you're doing it.

So I think it's only fair that we educate our dogs with as much information as we can on the beginning side of this in the foundational work so that they have a very clear understanding of what it is that we're wanting in different scenarios when they see a jump and this scenario is happening right, like I'm running and showing you constant acceleration and I want you to take this jump and extension.

Like that's going to look very different for my dog versus if I present the same jump. But I'm starting to decel as we approach the jump and I'm cueing my dog to take the jump with a left handed turn. That will look very different. Same jump involved but very different end result that I want from my dog. I think you mentioned before we hit record that on most agility courses jumps are like 80% of the course.

Melissa Breau: It's wild to me when you said that that more people don't take the time to really pull these pieces apart.

Ashley Escobar: Yeah, I mean if you look at any agility map it is mostly jumps. You get a tunnel here and there, you get three contacts if you're in a standard class and a set of weave poles. But otherwise everything, everything else from point A to point B is all separated with jumps.

And there's specialty jumps, there's just wing jumps, non wing jumps. There's, there's. But at the end of the day they're just some sort of a jump that our dogs need to have the education to be able to maneuver over them successfully. So what are the benefits of using Cavaletti's in particular in the process of building that beautiful jumping dog? You know, or kind of in general, what are the benefits to cavalettis?

The cavalettis tie into jumping with a lot of the conditioning components of jumping. So jumping mechanics require core strength, rear strength and stabilizer muscles. Because when we want our dogs to take those nice tight wraps around a wing, whether they be wrapping towards us, us, that requires a ton of physical control on our dogs. It's way easier for our dogs to just keep an extension and just fly through that jump and land 10ft away from the bar.

But if we're asking our dogs to take this jump and land right next to the wing, not touching it because if they went in extension they would end up facing a tunnel and take an off course tunnel. Right. Like there's intricate moves that are happening at a high rate of speed. Speed. They need a certain set of muscular structure to support them in that movement, in that moment on that course.

And so the cavaletti poles allow us to target those muscles in a fun way because our dogs get to keep in motion and keep moving. And it also helps teach them some stride regulation, which inadvertently builds rhythm into our dog's movement and gives them that cadence which they need. Because you've probably everyone has seen if you've watched agility where the dog runs as fast as they can and then they look like they're stuttering up to the jump.

There's lots of reasons that that happens. Sometimes it is just the dog does not have a good cadence to their stride for where to take off with that jump. So cavalettis can oftentimes help balance them out when they are moving through a course at a high rate of speed. Probably the most common question that I see kind of about cavaletti's and jump grids in particular, you know, how do you figure out the spacing?

Melissa Breau: Can you talk to that a little bit? Any tips or tricks? Is it trial and error?

Ashley Escobar: Oh, it's definitely not trial and error. There's a method to the madness. There's, there are, there are rules that go in with that. It is like, I'm a former math professor, so I think that's one reason that I'm so drawn to the physical conditioning components of dog training. There are measurements involved and depending on what we're working on, like the general rule of thumb would be that from pole to pole and the spacing between center pole to center pole is the height that your dog's withers.

So if your dog stands at 22 inches in height that they're withers, then you would have a 22 inch space in between poles. But let's say that your dog has no issue with extension. Most don't. Right. So we might need to take that space and make it a little bit smaller and not force, but manage the situation where we are encouraging our dog to use some collection. So because if our dogs just spend their life in extension, which I have two border collies, they would love to do that.

Right. They just always want to get to wherever they're going as fast as they can. And that does not happen with collection. Right. The collection is garbage to some dogs. So they develop muscles and the muscular structure and the stabilizer muscles that support extension. So we have to pick and choose and be creative with their conditioning to help also tone them and condition them to have the support that they'll need for some collection movement.

Because in agility in specific, you do have to have collection for a lot of reasons. But we definitely want our dogs to have it on the fly without too much effort on their part. Can you talk us a little bit through the kind of the progression that you work through here? When we're talking about Cavaletti's and jump grids, what does the training look like for more of a beginner dog versus maybe more of an advanced dog?

So in for the class in specific that we're going to be working on or how we're going to do it, the way I like to do it is the grids itself will be the same whether you are a first time learning how to do this or you have a young dog or your dog is already running full sequences and courses and you're work, you know, you're in the master level and you just want to hone in and create better jumping habits with your dog.

So you will. Everyone will start at the same place and the progression will come as we add in some handling to it. If your dog is brand new to this, we're obviously going to try to keep a very sterile environment for our dogs so that they have a chance to be correct and they experience successes with their repetitions. And we also build in a forward focus cue and a forward focus value for our dog moving away from us to some sort of a pre place reward or target.

If the dogs already have some of those skills because they're running courses now, we get to add in some handling. So we're going to progress it along with motion because for most dogs our motion trumps everything. You could be screaming left all you want to, but probably 8 out of 10 times if you're running to the right and screaming left, your dog is like oh no, I know that, you just forgot left and right and I'm totally going to come right with you.

The motion really trumps everything and the grids allow us to really solidify some independence on course with our dogs because they have value for the grid, they have value for driving this line that we've created for them and then we get to be off to the side or hang back or leave our dog behind us kind of a thing. So there's lots of ways to progress it. I have worked through.

I've done this class in person quite a bit and I don't think that I've ever had everyone in the class be at the same level. And everyone is able to participate in all the exercises, which is great because the new people get to see what it looks like once you're kind of, you know, the old kid around the block and you're doing it. And the people that have experience with it, they get to see what it looks like when you're starting it out.

So that when they get their next dog. Cause you know that's gonna happen, right? Then they get to say, oh, this is how we would do this if our dog was brand new to this. So I love having mixed levels in a group for that reason.

Melissa Breau: So talk to me a little more about the class in general. So it is on the schedule for June, so registration's opening up here very soon. I think it'll actually be open by the time this comes out, by the time people are listening to this. Because what are you going to cover? Who should consider signing up?

Ashley Escobar: We're going to cover six weeks worth of jump grids, cavaletti work and a conditioning exercise each week. So I have cherry picked six conditioning exercises that are specific for supporting your dog with building the muscles that they need to be an efficient jumper.

So we're going to be targeting those core muscles. We're going to be targeting the rear end, including the psoas, to really help develop our dog's muscular structure, to support them during jumping on a course at a high rate of speed. Like that's the end goal for everything with agility, right? To do it as fast as they can with as efficient as they can with no lost movement because then you lose time.

The grid work will be a multiple, multiple different jump grids. So I think we are going to need five jumps, but the jumps can be substituted with cavaletti poles. As long as you can get at least one jump at your dog's height, the rest are just going to be low bars. And then we're also going to each week work on a different cavaletti setup. So I'm going to give very specific instructions on how to set up your cavaletti poles and, and what our goal is going to be and then what we're looking for.

And that's where if you have a working spot, we get to tweak the spacing and really figure out the footfall of your dog and your dog's rhythm and your dog's cadence and find out where your dog is weak and where your dog is doing great. And then the best part of this for me that I think is overall, not only do they become better jumpers, but at the end of the six weeks working through all the exercises, you have an incredible forward focus cue on your dog, which I run border collies, so I love being able to put them on a jump and just cue their focus and then I can move downstream or be behind them or be wherever I need to be.

And once they hear that they're no longer looking at me, their head goes straight to the bar in front of them and they know exactly what to do. So I love being able to get a forward, nice sharp forward focus cue with being able to do all of these grid works.

Melissa Breau: So you mentioned the five jumps and obviously you'll need some cavaletti poles. Is there other equipment on the kind of need to have it list?

What kind of space requirements are we talking about here? I don't think we would need. We're not going to need a ton of space. There won't be full out running the grids. If you have a large dog like each jump itself would be roughly five to seven feet apart. And if we have five, so maybe a side yard of 35, 40ft would work. Not a ton of space is going to be required.

Cavaletti poles you can do in an even smaller space. I have a smallish indoor add on to my house. That's my studio and that's where I usually do my cavalletti work because it's so hot outside. So you can set that up in a small space with the cavaletti poles. The grids themselves can't. You can interchangeably use the cavaletti poles because we only will need on some grids one actual jump that your dog is jumping at height.

And then for some of the exercises we'll need just one jump at height. But everything else is truly grid work at the foundation level. The conditioning exercises there. We will need some sort of a perch that your dog can sit on and that can be one of the balance discs. It can be a homemade perch, just something that your dog can comfortably take a seat on and then some sort of a plank that you're.

That is raised off the ground a little bit. It could be just a homemade couple pieces of wood glued together. Like it doesn't have to be anything fancy. The cato plank works good for most dogs, most sizes. And that's it for the fitness work. I think I did put a list in the class for exactly what would be suggested for fitness stuff. But I'm pretty creative. So if someone doesn't have something. I'm not a fan of running out and buying it. We can find something at home to use and that. I think that's it. Yeah. So not a ton of stuff.

Melissa Breau: Before we go, I did want to give you a chance here to chit chat about anything else you might have coming up on the schedule. So anything else you want to kind of mention or that you're working on for this term?

Ashley Escobar: I do have my second phase of my Conformation class coming up on the schedule as well for the folks that just completed the first half of that. And it is more of an advanced Conformation handling class to help for people that maybe have already been in the show ring but just kind of want to polish up as an owner handler and working on free stacks and so forth like that with their show dogs.

There's a lot of shows coming up over the summertime, at least in my area. So I know a lot of people like to really get into it over the summer because there's not much else you can do to find indoor things to do.

Melissa Breau: Yeah, I hear that 110%. Any final thoughts or maybe key points you want to leave folks with?

Ashley Escobar: I think I do just want to mention that it's again, jumping is, it's such a…It's such a unique. It's like your fingerprint. Right. Every dog that I've ever worked with has their own jumping style. So this is in no way, shape or form an intent to cookie cut dogs style or change their style. Right. Like this is completely geared and designed to educate our dogs and us as handlers with the tools that we need so that our dogs can be as successful as we want them to be and be able to have the means physically and mentally to handle what we're asking them to do on course with regards to jumps.

Right. There's really no wrong way for a dog to take a jump. I've had dogs that have crazy looking styles but as long as they understand at certain times we're going to have relative collection and at certain times we're going to have some collection and full collection. Right. And then still keep the bar up at the same time. So it's really, it's definitely not a class that's going to change any style of jumping.

And in the sense of you don't like the way your dog looks when they jump, right. That's something that I get a lot. I don't like my dog's feet the way they. They superman out over a jump. Well, this class is not going to change. It's not going to change that. Right. But we will give our dogs the education that they need to be able to successfully take the jump and keep the bar up. Hopefully that's always the main goal, but sometimes optimal.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Ashley.

Ashley Escobar: Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me.

Melissa Breau: Absolutely. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week, this time with Kim Palermo and Erin Lynes to talk about the stages our dogs go through and training during puppyhood and that teenage phase. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in itunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by bendsound.com the track featured here is called Buddy. Audio Editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in. Happy training.

 Credits

 Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!