Looking to improve your relationship with your dog and improve your teamwork? In this episode, Crystal breaks down the factors that go into fostering that relationship in a healthy way. 

 Transcript

Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Dog. Today we'll be talking to Crystal Wing about her unique approach to functional obedience and the role of relationship within that. Hi, Crystal. Welcome back to the podcast.

Crystal Wing: Hello, friend. Thanks for having me.

Melissa Breau: My pleasure. Always to start us out, you want to just remind everybody a little bit about kind of who you are, who your dogs are and what you're working on with them. Sure.

Crystal Wing: So I am Crystal Wing. Hello. I am a co-host on the Canine Detection Collaborative podcast. I am now a professional dog trainer. The reason I say this now is because I just retired early from teaching art.

High school art teacher. So it's kind of weird to now say I don't do that anymore. I'm like, oh. I'm like, this is a huge transition for me. I'm really lucky right now. I'm actually out here at the FDSA ranch with Denise and my best friend Nancy. And we just did some seminars out here and I'm just so impressed with the community and what Denise has created out here at the ranch.

And so if any of you guys ever have the chance, you got to come out here. It's, it is such, it's magic. I mean, is there another word that can be better for it? I mean, it really is. It's a place to bring and collaborate and I'm just so thankful to be here. So that's part of who I am right now, is really enjoying this space and the people that are around in this community.

My dogs, I have three dogs currently. My oldest dog is Yukon, my hiking buddy, Dutchie. He was going to be my protection sport dog and he said, nope, he wanted to chase butterflies. And so that's what we do together. And then my next dog is my 7 year old, Malinois. His name is Checkmate. And we tried to do some bitey sports but he needed two hip replacements and so it's been a lot of setbacks for us.

And then my youngest dog is Radish. She's a Lab mixed with a Dutchie or Mal, I don't know quite yet. And we do search and rescue together. She's a certified cadaver dog, so that's all the fun stuff I get to do right now. They're just an amazing crew to have and I'm learning so much from them and I love that they are teaching me so much to share with everybody, everybody else.

Melissa Breau: So I know this is kind of a big theme for you, but what do you typically mean when you talk about you and your dog as being part of a team?

Crystal Wing: We always have a shared purpose. You know, like you heard with Radish, our purpose is to find cadaver. We find dead, dead people. And we try to, you know, bring closure for families. It doesn't have to be such a big, serious job, because with Yukon, he doesn't have that job.

His job is to be my hiking buddy. But we're still a team, and we still have a shared purpose, is to have fun and live life and celebrate. And it's the same with Radish. It's not all series. It's not all work. So it doesn't matter if it's training, if it's competing, if it's searching everyday life. We're each doing our part, and we're relying on the other to do their thing.

So I guess it's communication in both directions. So I'm not just giving commands. I don't even think about it that way. I think about cues as green lights. Like Fanny Gott says, it's. I'm trying to listen, I'm trying to observe, I'm trying to adjust. Recently, I saw. I get into these, like, little reels on Instagram. Do you ever do that? Like, you kind of get in those little.

Melissa Breau: Never. I've never gotten into that scroll fest.

Crystal Wing: And somehow I really. I love this. Like, I love where my Instagram is right now. It's, like, a lot of helpful things. It feels really positive. And one of the things that I just saw was about reacting versus responding. And I really liked that because I always was like, it's the same thing. And it's not, because I feel like when they were kind of going through this thing, they were saying, reacting is you don't have a plan for what happens next, and maybe you don't have the right mental headspace for it.

And responding is that you're more thoughtful about it. Maybe you take a breath. Maybe you already had a thought about what might happen if this happens. And so I'm really trying to be thoughtful about how I respond and not just reacting in my everyday life. And I think I owe that to my dogs because they're constantly giving me information, and I try to respect what they're telling me.

I do believe there's a lot of trust, and that's absolutely mutual. They're gonna trust that I keep them safe. And if I can keep them safe, you know, it's especially like with poor Checkmate and his hips and he had a broken foot. I'm like, oh, dude. Like, he's so klutzy. It's hard. I feel like these dogs are constantly trying to kill themselves. Do you ever feel that? Like, constantly?

I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, why? Why are you doing that? So keeping them safe, I feel like, is a full time job. So if I can do that, that's why I say if. I think part of that trust is I'm trying to set them up for success. I'm trying to be fair. And I trust that they're going to try, they're going to show up with their heart, they're always giving it their all.

And I always have to thank them for what they give me. And then I have to be kind to myself and. And then also thank myself for trying so hard each time because I can be so hard on myself. There was another Instagram one that I heard recently that I'm gonna bring in, and it was about, would you say the things that you say to yourself to your friends?

And so I really took that to heart because I can be so hard on myself. And that's not good on my dogs because all of that pressure I put on myself, they're feeling that too. And so part of that teamwork is I have to be right for them and do the work on myself. And we're supporting each other. I bring the clarity, the structure, I bring the rewards.

I'm the one that has the thumbs. I can cut up the food, I can eat, know, make the toys and the tugs. But my dogs bring their part. They bring the enthusiasm, they bring their honesty. And if one of us is off, I think we kind of fill in the gap. And that's what I love. Radish is my, my key, my clutch girl for that. If I'm feeling off at all, she's like my therapy dog.

She will lay on me. And I'm like, no, no, get off of me. Like, really? I don't, I don't want you on me right now. She's like, no, no, no. Yes, you do. You need this. And I'm like, no, really? And we just had this conversation and she's like, no, you need to calm down. You need to, to find yourself. And I think that's how we're. We're growing together in that way.

We have all these mistakes and all these breakthroughs and we're learning from it as a unit as a team. So I'm better because of my dogs, and I really hope that they would say the same if they could. It's that connection, so. And I. Oh, you know, the thing I also want to say. I'm sorry. I'm going on a long time about this. Oh, my gosh. Go for it.

I didn't know. I had so many thoughts. Yeah. Anyway, so I don't think that teams are made when things are easy. I really think it's when the challenges happen. That's when I think the moments of that real connection happen. Because I think about Yukon. The moment that we connected. We were in West Virginia. I'm from Missouri, and we went to West Virginia, and we did a mud run together.

And we weren't a great team before then. And after that day, we were a team. And it was this mud run obstacle course through the mountains of West Virginia. The night before, I had passed out, and I got a concussion, and I didn't realize it, you know, I mean, it was. It was insane, right? And that next day, I went and did a mud run because I had a concussion and wasn't smart.

So whatever. I know I don't make the best choices. You'll learn that about me if you don't know me. I'm very much a Malinois, and he's my hiking buddy, and we were there for a thing. We drove all that time. We're doing it, and there's this moment. We're doing this swinging bridge, and it's my favorite photo that anybody's ever captured. And I'm on my hands and knees, and my fingers are tense, and he is.

I don't know if you can kind of imagine, but he's under my arm, so our faces are kind of side by side, and we're climbing through the mud, getting ready to do this bridge. And you don't want to just run on this bridge. It's in a cow patty. Like, it's a cow pond. I don't want to fall in this. Okay. It's disgusting. And it was that moment that they captured this beautiful photo of us and.

And this connection we had. You couldn't do that. Just. It was the adversity. It was. That was the fun that brought us together. So I'm always about trying new things with your dogs and do something out of your comfort zone. Maybe not with a concussion, and it doesn't have to involve mud, but do those special things, those special moments. I think people listen to something like that, right? And they. They want that? Right? Maybe if they don't have it.

Melissa Breau: Can you talk a little bit about how, as the member of the team that's usually in the driver's seat, how are you thinking about building that relationship? How did you kind of grow that? How do you give a dog a say in it? Yeah, when I'm in the driver's seat. No, I always joke about that because I think that I'm the one that's like, the.

Okay, so I'm gonna get. I'm gonna use this word. Leader. Oh, my gosh. Ah. People just probably panicked. What? Pack leader? That's not what I'm saying. I love Denise's webinar about leadership. If you guys haven't checked that one out, it's one of my favorites. It is so good. And I was talking to her, she's like, yeah, that's not one of them. That's the most well received. And I'm like, are you kidding me?

So you need to check into that one. Because I think people are kind of put off by certain words, and I think leaders one of them. But I think about when I was teaching, you know, I needed a strong principal as a strong leader because it made everything work smoothly in my school. I knew that I could have trust, and I knew that I could have respect, and I knew that he was there with curiosity, and I need that.

And so then when our school board wasn't good leaders, it really broke things down, because then he couldn't be the leader he needed to be because he was always, you know, and so that's where. What kind of leader do I want? And that's what I try to lead with curiosity. I try to have respect. And I think accountability is important. It's not about control. And I think that's some misinformation or misunderstanding about what people think leadership is and about being in the driver's seat.

So I try to guide, because that's important. I think when you give too many choices, you're creating some problems. I can give you some different ways to earn a reinforcement. I'm really about letting them initiate the engagement, so I want to give them control over starting that activity. So we do offered behaviors, but there's guidelines we have too. Right. When I do give them choice, I give them the ability to tell me what they like.

It's going to build confidence and ownership. They're not just executing tasks. Right. They're participating. We're doing this together. But I do make the big picture decisions. So when we train what we're doing where we're going, when we're resting, but I'm paying attention to how they respond. So if they're disengaged, if they're stressed, if they're so jacked up. Oh, and I love this weekend, too. We talked about being overly aroused because one of the things that I was teaching was arousal and drive, and I was having people put a number as to what level each team was on arousal and drive.

And I loved seeing how people. I didn't have to teach the lesson. They caught it themselves. Because you would read back the numbers for arousal for that team, and it was from, like, three to nine. And they're like, wait a minute. We're all watching the same two minutes. And why are we so varied in this? And it's because we have to go through the lens of where we are right now.

And so that's where. If I'm a Malinois owner and I see this other dog, you know, I may look at them and go, that's a three. And for them, it was a nine. And so it's about that dog and that relationship, and in that moment, why was I getting there? Oh, and sometimes when they're overly aroused, it's not about being frantic and all this extra motion. Like with Yukon, he goes to sniffing.

It looks like he's not doing anything, but I look at him and I go, oh, buddy, you need a second. And so that's because I can listen. I've learned him that. I learned that, and I haven't learned him. I've learned that about him, that when I watch him and he goes to sniffing and he goes to this kind of blank stare kind of thing, it was too much.

And so that's a really important thing to recognize, because I think maybe somebody else might look at it and go, oh, you know, he's just. He's being lazy, or they would label all these things on him. And I can see communication. He's saying, I need a break. So I try not to ignore these things. I try not to push through it. I try to adjust. And that's not weakness.

That's partnership. I feel like that's. That's the kind of leadership that I would want, is someone to say, hey, you're. You're going through it. Let me give you a second. And. And training, too. It's. It's a conversation. It's just not a monologue. It's not me saying, this is all the things we're doing. I don't do it to my dog. This is a good conversation, too, that I had with Denise this week.

Radish loves search work. She gets very excited about that. We can go out, she can search big areas. When we're doing obedience, she doesn't have the same enthusiasm and love that like Checkmate has or my old dog Quinn had. And I'm like, is this fair to her? You know, like, am I doing the wrong thing? And we had these really nice heart to hearts about it because she's like, do you enjoy it?

I'm like, yeah, like, I need it. Like, I need to train dogs. Like, it's a need for me. I love this. And then when I was thinking about Radish, I'm like, does she need to do obedience? You know what she wants to do? She wants to be with me and she wants to do things with me. And if I want to train, it doesn't mean that she has to be this overly exuberant.

Oh, my gosh. You know, this is the best front. And I love doing these front exercises. But we're growing so much together through this. And it's something that she does want to do because she wants to be with me. And I think that's important. And so I think that I'm earning their buy in. You know, I can make all their decisions, but it doesn't mean I should. I want my dog to be in it with me, so I want to make it fun and fair and fulfilling.

Look at that. There's three Fs. Fun, Fair, and fulfilling. I keep doing that. I don't know if this alliteration thing is happening in my brain lately. It just keeps happening, but it's not just for me. It's for them. And that's where I think that relationship talking about needs and wants.

Melissa Breau: Right. What do you kind of consider a need on your dog's list?

Crystal Wing: I guess your dog's need list. I don't know how to phrase that so that it sounds good, but versus, like, things they maybe just want. And how do you kind of align that with, like you said, the things that you want versus the things that you need? I love that. I think this is the heart of being a thoughtful partner. Right. My dog needs, and I think anything I think that my dog needs, it's actually things that humans need too.

So I think you can hear it for both. I think that we need physical care, the food, the water, the rest, the medical attention, safety and security. I want to be predictable as I can. I have a hard time with predictable. My ADHD brain doesn't have patterns. It doesn't have habits. That's really hard for me. And that was something that was really good as being a teacher is that was very predictable.

Bells rang through my day and I'm finding. I'm trying to find that rhythm now. And if I can't be as predictable as I would like, at least I can try to create a low stress environment. You know, simple things like Checkmate has a lot of separation anxiety and FOMO. So simple things like having a radio on in the car, giving him a pacifier. I'm going to try to give things as less stress as I possibly can because I'm listening to them and that clear communication and consistency.

I think we all need that agency. You know, we do need control over our bodies and our environments and so do they. And the ability to say no, that's so huge. And I'm really trying to be very good about that. If I can have moments that I can ask my dogs and they can say no and I can listen to that and they can opt out, I think that's important for a relationship when they're showing me something's too much.

I think we need social connection. I give my dogs 10 minutes every day. Individual. And I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but sometimes that's all I can give of just complete individual. What do you love to do? What can we do? And I think that's what creates that. Oh, it's that trusted being, you know, like, that's what creates that trust. It's gonna happen. I think we need mental and physical like, stimulation, you know what I mean?

Like, we need challenges. We need opportunities to solve problems that's just in us. Even like, even Yukon, who I wouldn't say is maybe the smartest creature, he enjoys solving problems with me, you know, and it can be simple things. Like it's taken him seven years to learn that when he goes around a tree with a leash that he can come back the other way. And that's something that we still work on.

And. And he's. I'm so proud of him when he does. We're like, yeah, you did it. And we have a big celebration, you know, and, you know, when I say problem solving, it doesn't have to be some giant thing, but we do need that mental stimulation and we need to move. I need to move. My dogs need to move. And I think too, for my dogs and for myself, we both need training.

We just have to. And it's not because I want this obedient robot, because I don't have that. I have Yukon's half feral. And I have, you know, three dogs that don't have great leash walking skills because those things aren't as important to me, which now they are. In my new life that I'm doing now, I'm like, okay, that needs to be a focus now, you know, and it didn't have to be before, but I need structure and it helps us understand, like, how we're going to. How they can dog in my world. This. Oh, once, Once. Okay, man, I'm talking a lot. Whoa. Melissa, look at me go.

Melissa Breau: You're good. You're the guest here. Crystal, come on. You're supposed to be the one talking.

Crystal Wing: I know, but I'm like, I didn't realize I had so much to say. I just kind of glanced. I'm like, wow. So needs. Wants. So wants. Okay. Checkmate wants the decoy right now.

I know that Yukon really wants to go chase these hare. Okay. California hare. I had to look up to make sure that jackalope weren't really a real thing. Because I'm telling you, these things are monsters and they have like two mile long ears. I'm so obsessed with these things because the dogs are obsessed. My dogs want them. They want to ignore my recall when there's a jackalope on site.

Okay. Jackalopes aren't real, but I'm just using it because it's funny to me, you know, and they want another cookie or 50. And the biggest thing that radish wants is not to ever have to get back in the van again. But, you know, these wants, they're not that valid. I mean, they're very valid, but they're not that feasible, you know? So I just, I try to start with, you know, sharing these needs.

I acknowledge their wants. Like when they start barking, I don't just ignore that. I say, hey, I acknowledge your pain. I hear you. Things aren't going to change, though. And I learned that from Susan Cleveland. And that was so huge. Just that simple thing of saying, hey, I hear you. I see you. That sucks. I get it. But, you know, I can't do anything about it right now.

And I also, I may want a certain training goal met by a certain date. That's happened a lot in my life. But my dog is struggling. And that timeline, I'm shifting it because my want is not going to override their need for clarity or emotional safety or they need some more time to get stronger. And that's been a big thing. A lot of it. I thought was just inability on my part, but really a lot of times it was fitness.

And so I needed to work on the fitness of my dog to do it. And the other thing, this is another Instagram one instead of yes, but I'm really work on yes. And so that's what I'm really working for in my training. I'm aiming for the yes. And if my dog wants to tug or okay, like, okay. So like, I build a lot of games with rules. Let's say that my want.

I want precision and my dog wants joy. Right. So we chase the joy and the precision follows. So yes, and. And so I'm really working on that one. And it's just a one word, but it makes a difference in our mindset. So I don't know. I think it's just making space for both of us to matter. Oh. And sometimes needs collide. And when that happens, I breathe.

I'm really working on slowing down breathing and just saying okay. And then when our wants align. Woo. Celebration, baby. Let's go. And I think because our relationship, that's really what's making those wants align more and more. And when they don't be flexible, it's no big deal, dude. You know, it's not on sacrifice. It's about listening. It's about meeting in the middle. It's about all those things. I just, I choose them every day because they're so amazing.

Melissa Breau: So talk to me a little bit about your acronym RUBBER, what each of those letters stand for. I'm like, acronym crazy because I also have TIM, because Tim is always on my shoulder, because I'm always thinking about. So the first letters of Tim, they're going to teach it. Are you going to ignore it? Are you going to manage it? So I'm always talking about that. So with this one, I kind of like that it creates a sandwich.

So on the outskirts of the R's of RUBBER, it's relationship and reinforcement. And when you have that as the outside of the sandwich, everything else in the middle starts to make sense and starts to happen. So the utilitarian behaviors and the boundaries and the expectations. And so I talk a lot about in the webinar that I have, and it was my first webinar I ever did with you guys.

It was three years ago. Can you believe that? Three years. I couldn't believe it. That was nuts. So it was really cool and getting to see my classroom, I'm like, oh, but the. The whole acronym is just a way to think about how we keep our relationship and our reinforcement as the. The main elements that then guide how we figure out what utilitarian behaviors we need, the important boundaries we need to set.

And then everything is about expectations. And I think sometimes those are like scary things for people to think about. And that's the most important part, the boundaries and expectations. That's where the clarity comes in. Let's dive into the utilitarian behavior piece. Can you talk a little bit about what you mean by that, why they matter? That's when you ask your dog how they dog in your world. Like, what is it that you need in your life?

And that's an important question you have to ask yourself. So I kind of mentioned earlier, I think there's a couple times in the webinar that I kind of poo poo on loose leash walking. And it's not because I don't think it's important, because I think it's very important. But what I think is it's hard. It's very hard. And I haven't put the time into it because I just, I put the time into other things.

And I know a lot of really good trainers that have these excellent dogs that maybe have the worst house skills ever or maybe have the worst loose leash skills ever. And you'd be so shocked by it. I'm one of them. If you came to my house, you would be like, do these dogs know anything? And then you would watch us in competition and you would see that the dog has beautiful heel and fronts and recalls and you know, and can go search for days on end and can do all these great things.

But there's a reason I'm 48 and single. Because you come in and my dog is going to jump on you and my dog is going to be on the couch. And those are things that aren't that important to me. Is that important to you then? Yeah. So that's what I mean by utilitarian behaviors. What do you need for your dog to dog in your world? And that's what I cover in the webinar to ask you to think about that.

And when I think about sports, even you can really break your sports down and really look at the key things that they need. And typically it's things about like situation down, stand, like positions, right? So I'll call those stay things, send away things, and then recall things. So you could really take it down to just three. Can your dog go away from you? Can your dog come to you?

And can your dog stay? And maybe that's all you need. So you have to kind of look to see what your life needs. And maybe I should add a little bit more. Less chaos to my life. But I don't know. I'm okay with feral dogs in my house. So if anyone wants to come visit, just know that you're going to get lots of love and they're going to jump on you and it's going to just be how it is in my house.

Melissa Breau: Oh, it's funny. Okay, so boundaries. And you're talking about, how does that. Now that we know that you, you know, allow mass chaos, what kind of boundaries do you have with your dogs? And how do they, you know, foster a safe environment and build that relationship?

Crystal Wing: So boundaries are super, super important. You do need physical boundaries. So I am now walking, working on leash rules, checkmates, loose leash walking is really a maintenance kind of thing.

I have a special leash that I've made that he's able to have a pacifier. So that's how I have a physical boundary with him. Because he's powerful and he could hurt me. So dragging me around is not going to be cool. So thinking about the things that keep us safe, respectful of our environment, I don't want my dogs pulling after somebody else or scaring someone or going after another dog.

Those are boundaries. That's for myself, but it's also for others. Other people shouldn't have to be worried about my dogs or anything that I'm doing. So they should be able to feel safe and have their boundaries as well. That's important. So one home boundary I have is they can't rush the door because I don't want them, you know, taking off. Like, that's not okay. I don't even have a screen door that has a glass in it.

It's totally open. So my door is open. They stay in the house. So those, those are boundaries that I've set at play. Boundaries. So I think about. I don't want to get bit, so that's. That's important. No biting me now. It happens on times where, like, I don't present quite right. Like, I'll get a knuckle hit here or there, but that's. That's on me. But I want to have play.

That's fun. I spent a long time with Yukon. You can't bite me to eat the food out of my hand. That's a boundary I have. If training is aversive for me, I'm not going to train, so that's important. So these physical boundaries, they're keeping me from getting hurt and they're giving us, I guess some reliability would be a good word for it because I need them to be reliable, that they're not going to jump through the door and they're not going to be silly.

And yeah, I won't tell that story. A sensor just kicked in. Did you like that? Doesn't happen often. I'll leave you in suspense on that one. I think beyond physical boundaries, I think there's emotional boundaries. So I'm gonna avoid using pressure and punishment and intimidation to make them do something. That's a line I won't cross. And I think everybody has different lines of where that lives. For me, that's an emotional boundary.

Okay, another one. If I'm emotionally off, I am not going to train my dog. I will choose because I still want to interact with them, I will choose play. So that's my session, my emotionally off days. I will play with my dog. And almost always that fixes me. And it's great because then as we play, I start to find that we just start doing stuff and it just naturally evolves and it's so much fun.

But I'm not going to ask for my dogs to do their best when I can't get my best. And I think another emotional boundary kind of goes back to earlier. I do respect their no. So if it's something that, in that moment that I can to be able to ask them that question and they say no, I'm going to listen. Because I don't see it as defiance, I'm seeing it as feedback.

And I'm not saying for important stuff, like if I'm at the vet and they're like, no, I don't want to get shots, we're doing this. And that's a boundary I have. There are these times that we're going to do the thing and I let them know this is what's happening, I'm going to make it as fast as I can and we're out. But I think that also kind of builds the trust that they know that they're not going to get hurt. And it goes back to the safety.

Melissa Breau: What are the kind of boundaries?

Crystal Wing: I guess training boundaries. So some of my training boundaries, I try to stay consistent with my criteria. Try. I try not to over face them. So there's that goalpost that I want to keep moving so fast and there's that you don't want to plateau, but you also want to push them too hard. And I talked a lot about this last weekend about having a clear start and a clear end.

To my work. And I think that's an important boundary because I want them to know when work is available and when it's time for them to be a dog. Oh, another good one. I like to fail. I think that's maybe weird to say, but when I fail things, I learn so much, and I fail in a way that's not miserable, and I make it not miserable for others as well, because if we make mistakes, I learn and I grow, and I'm okay pushing a little bit more, but it's not.

I'm not scolding, I'm not correcting. It's just we reset, we reassess. You know, we keep it positive, we keep going. And so failure can kind of be fun. And so. I don't know. I think I thrive off of that push. What other boundaries is that good or. I don't know. I think that's good. I mean, unless you got something else you want to share, but. Okay, so we talked through.

I got one more. I got one more advocating for your dog. That's a boundary. So I think that goes within boundaries. If there's a situation that's not right, I'm going to step in. Because I was thinking back to the vet, and that kind of got me back in. There's times that I'm like, no, I need to advocate for my dog, whether it's for. For others. But there's. There's been a few times I had to step in, and that's definitely a boundary I have.

Oh, and I guess, too, maybe that's training, but. Or no, I can. It's. Maybe it's relationship. I try not to ask for things I don't care about because I think there's so many times that people nag. I hear a lot of nagging. I think that's on my mind right now. I let it go. Just don't. Don't be a joy killer. Don't nag. It kills your relationship. So I don't know.

Yeah. So boundaries are not just about making walls. I think they're. It's about being what's. What's safe and what's fair. So there you go. Okay, I'm done now.

Melissa Breau: Okay. So we talked about relationship. We talked about the utilitarian behaviors. We've talked about the boundaries. So I think that brings us back to your reinforcement. Right. I think that's where we're at in that process. When you're talking about reinforcement in terms of your rubber acronym in particular, are you talking about it in the scientific sense?

So literally just something that makes a behavior more likely. Or do you mean kind of the way we use it more casually when we're talking about food and toys and how we use those things? Something else. How are you thinking about it?

Crystal Wing: Yes. Okay, next. You want to leave it there. I do like to say that play is research. So if I say that play is research, that's part of my reinforcement.

So I do mean it in a scientific sense, because it's increasing the likelihood of a behavior occurring. That's the scientific way. That's, you know, how the reinforcement is delivered, what it looks like to the dog, and that's the important part to the dog, because that varies me. The way I got to play with Checkmate is not going to be reinforcing to the way that how I play with Yukon or Radish, they all need very different things.

So food, toys, they can be reinforcement. Also, food can be a behavior. So I have to look at what I'm trying to accomplish to be a reinforcement in that moment for that behavior. I want to see that it does make something improve or increase. So sometimes the cookies for Radish, although she's half lab, I think we can take her lab card away because she is so picky about her food.

Like, I thought I was gonna get this super foodie dog, but she likes the toys better. And I'm like, come on. It's so much easier with food. So I mean, the cookie or I call it candy a lot. I get that from keys. I just love it. Candy, you know, if it's not making the behavior happen, they don't care about the food, right? Then. Then I have to switch.

So I am talking about the actual thing, but I'm also talking about how it's increasing that behavior, and sometimes it's about giving them access to something. So one of my favorites was I was listening to Hannah Brannigan's podcast and talked about giving sniff as a cue. And that was a huge game changer for me because that's what Yukon loves to do, and it's what I was fighting all the time.

And so using sniffing as a reinforcement. Oh, my gosh, it just. It was huge. Using swimming, saying hello to people. You know, go say hi. And whenever I say that to Radish, she does a. She snorts and she puts her teeth all big, and she makes this big grin at everybody, and she just wiggles her whole body. If anybody's seen a lab wiggle their body, you just pictured it, and it's the most beautiful thing and you just makes everybody feel so good.

And social interactions, that's a great reinforcement, too. I love verbal praise. I love the way that they respond to my voice. One of the things I love doing to Checkmate, he'll be across the room, and all I do is I get real still, and I kind of lean down a little, like, kind of like, I'm going to get you. And I kind of like turn my left shoulder in a little.

And that boy, oh, my gosh, it's the coolest thing he'll be across the room doing. I think he's not paying attention at all. He's sniffing, doing stuff. And he'll do a little glance at me, me, and he freezes. You know, he does that little pounce freeze. And he comes sprinting at me. And those moments like, oh, they're just the best. So I think reinforcement, you know, you can say, use reinforcement.

You're offering something, dog wants food. Play. Reinforce the behavior. You're strengthening it with a consequence. And I think consequence is the right word in the behavior sense and the science sense. And I think that people hear consequence are like, oh, that's bad. But in the science terms, consequence is just the thing that happens. The antecedent behavior consequence. The consequence isn't bad. It's just the thing that happens. And I try to make that thing happen, that it's going to be a fun thing they're going to love to do, and it's going to make more behaviors happen.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. All right, so part of the reason we're chit chatting about all this is that you're offering your webinar on functional obedience, where rubber meets the road again for us. Do you want to just talk real quick kind of about what it covers, what's in it, who should consider signing up?

Crystal Wing: Yeah. So I watched it back because it's been a couple days since I watched it, and it was really interesting to see it and just see how much I've grown and changed.

So I think that was kind of fun. I am still strong behind all the things I say in it. If people are looking for resources like where to learn specific how to teach the utilitarian behavior, so I don't go in and teach you how to teach sit, how to teach down, how to teach recall, if you're looking for that, I don't do that. That's when you'll go to, like, Laura Waudby's TEAM class.

You'll go to the other amazing FDSA instructors. My goal for this webinar was to help you improve your day to day life with your dog. You're so much better at being able to observe your dog and identify your dog's needs. Hopefully from the things you hear and what I talk about and your needs, hopefully you'll be able to understand a little more of how to plan. So when we think about what you want, what your dog to do, what you want your dog to know so that you can teach it, because that's really what I'm hitting in this.

And then being successful later, like your future self might be happy that you've been able to think about kind of what you want to teach and then also identifying your utilitarian behaviors because like I said, it's different for everybody and hopefully I help you do that and how to do it in a fun way and help you get a better relationship. That was kind of my goals. And then I also introduced like wish wonder.

So if you haven't heard me talk about that before, I think that's a good takeaway from it. And then also the five concepts, the five components, where the rubber meets the road.

Melissa Breau: Excellent. All right, any final thoughts or key points you kind of want to leave folks with?

Crystal Wing: I didn't think I had so much to say. We're not all perfect and I love that we're imperfect and I think we should embrace that.

You know, we're out here doing the best we can with our dogs. My loose leash isn't great. I'm going to say it, you know, and if yours is, kudos to you, friend. I'm working on it now. And we're all finding out what we need and we're adjusting on the fly and it's awesome. So keep doing the best you can every day living with this amazing species that we call dog and enjoy this ride.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. All right, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Crystal, thank you so much for inviting me. This is really cool. Always, always good to chat with you, friend. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week, this time with Denise Fenzi to talk about teaching, heal work and contact heel work. If you haven't already, subscribe to the podcast in itunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by BenSound.com the track featured here is called Funny. Audio editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in. Happy training.

 Credits

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!