E307: Stacy Barnett - Understanding Airflow in Nosework

Most people know heat can impact air flow — but what else can impact where odor pools and how it moves? Join me and Stacy for a discussion on everything air flow... and the balancing act between learning to read your dog and training them.


Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau, and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast, brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports, using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today I have Stacy Barnett here with me to talk about airflow and how understanding it can impact your nosework training. Hi Stacy, welcome back to the podcast!

Stacy Barnett: Hey, thanks for having me on. Thanks for having me on. Happy to be here.

Melissa Breau: Excited to chat today. Do you wanna kind of start us off by just reminding folks a little bit about you and your current pups?

Stacy Barnett: Yeah, yeah. I've got four dogs. I've got three Labradors and a mini aussie. My labs are the younger ones, so they're two and a half, which is Prize, three and a half. That's Powder. Oh gosh, she's, she's gonna be four in a few weeks. I don't know where time went. And Brava, who, oh my gosh, she's gonna be five six, she's gonna be six in about a week.

So I have the three Labradors and they're all competing at elite and summit level nosework. And then I have my mini aussie who is almost 12. I can't believe it, why his name is y and he, I call him my little bonus elite dog cuz I didn't anticipate him getting to that level, but he is like killing it. He's doing great. And he competes at the elite level too. Yeah. So it's, you know, and he's just like, da da da. And now he's out there doing it too. So yeah, those are my four dogs and, and I've been teaching with FDSA since, oh my gosh, I think it's been like 2015, something like that. I don't know. It's been like a long time. Second family. Second family. Love it. Love it. Yeah.

Melissa Breau: Yeah. So I wanted to talk a little bit about airflow today. I think when most people kind of think about airflow, they think about maybe the really obvious stuff, right? Like a fan or an open window. But there are a lot of things that can impact airflow, right? Do you wanna kind of talk us through some of them? Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. And I do have, I do have a webinar coming up on airflow that will talk, that will cover things like fans and stuff. But this class, like for that I'm talking about with the, with the airflow class is not about that, right? What we're talking about is airflow. And if we start to kind of think about it from almost like the macro level, right? We can kind of think about it from the weather level and you know, where you're prevailing wind is going and then you can kind of shrink that down. So if you kind of think about like, oh, if the weather's, I mean the wind is coming from the northeast, then you can kinda look at it from your search area, you know, cuz then you have buildings and everything and when you have, you know, buildings and stuff, you're gonna have like the, the wind is gonna bend around those buildings, it's gonna bend around structures, that sort of thing.

And then kind of like at your micro, micro level, you're gonna have, your airflow is actually going to vary depending upon how you set your hide. So you could have actually airflow that's very more local, specifically to where the hide is set. So when you think about airflow, the, you know, the, all of these things we're kind of thinking about that,

how the air moves through the search area. And that's kind of affected from a lot of different, there's a lot of different factors that drive that. And ultimately it's going to affect how your dog searches and how successful they're gonna be and what they're gonna learn. So, so that's kind of what we're, what we're thinking when we're thinking airflow. It's not really like fans and stuff, you know, we're, we're thinking about like, you know, that when we go somewhere like we're what's gonna happen here, you know? So yeah, it's, yeah, it's kind of cool stuff.

Melissa Breau: So what do we know, like scientifically kind of about how air moves, especially since it's something, you know, we can't really see how is it that we kind of study that piece of things?

Stacy Barnett: Yeah, yeah. This, this, that's actually probably the hardest thing for people to kind of get their heads around, right? Because I mean, we're very much, we're, we're visual, we're very visual species, right? We're, we don't live through our noses like the dogs do. You know, we're all about our eyes. Maybe a little bit about our hearing depends some of us more than others, right? But I can tell you one thing, like my sense of smell is just ridiculously poor. And when we compare that to our dogs, we're just on a different plane. Like our dogs like live in a totally different world than we do, right? So it can be really hard as a human to kind of wrap your head around airflow because when we see something, especially like I see a lot of people, they set out a hide and if their dog walks right past it, they're like, oh, my dog missed the hide. Or my dog's not paying attention and let's say the hides on a fence or something. I'm like, well the air's blowing the odor right away from them is going through the fence.

Your dog literally isn't going to know that the hide's there, even if they can see it because, you know, it, it, the, the dog has to intersect the odor to, in order to be able to respond to it. And that can be a hard thing for people to kind of get their heads around. But if we kind of think about from a scientific perspective, a lot of the things that drive that, it really comes down to, and I don't wanna get like overly geeky cuz I, you know, I don't wanna lose people here, but it, it goes down to, it's actually, you know, because of the gas laws and everything and you have your variances of especially pressure and temperature really start to come into play here.

And when you have changes in temperature, you have changes in pressure, all of those things start to make air move. And we don't have to, you know, understand that from a, like an equation perspective. But it can be really helpful to know, you know, we all, we all kind of heard of heard, you know, warm air rises, right? I mean we all kind of learned that, you know, down, you know, back in the school we learned warm air rises. We don't realize when we go off and we started to do nosework as a, you know, as a sport when we're, when we're out of, out of school and we've got our, got our dogs and stuff, we're, and we don't realize like that stuff like really matters. So things like temperature is gonna make your air rise. And when it rises, for instance, this is as an example, when it rises, it's gonna bring that odor up with it. So let's say you have an elevated hide and you have the sun hitting it while your dog may walk underneath the hide and not even know that it's there because that odor is gonna go over their heads at the same time.

Things like, you know, pressure is when we have wind, wind is created by weather, which is kind of like your macro climate, right? And a lot of that is, that is going to drive, a lot of those pressures are gonna gonna change, you know, where that wind is coming from and that sort of thing, or how much wind that you have.

Our odor then gets carried on that wind. So it's super, super important to be able to understand what that wind is gonna do so that you can anticipate what your odor is going to do so that you can set your hides appropriately. And again, that kind of goes, you know, starts out from the weather perspective, that it goes down to the kind of the local perspective.

The other thing to think about is that air will bend around things and that, that's the other part that I think is kind of cool. That's the part that's kind of gets into that fluid mechanics and stuff like that. If you kind of picture like a, you know, if you look at a stream and you see like a boulder in the stream, right? What, what does water do when it goes around a boulder, right? It bends around it. If you can kind of have that visual in your head, it can be really easy to chart to think about what air does when it goes around buildings and what you know, you know, what it might do or, or when it goes around different structures or vehicles or something like that.

That's a lot of, like, you get a lot of the beyond kind of the, the pressure and temperature changes. It starts to really kind of affect direction of airflow and that sort of thing. And if you can anticipate that, you know, can really help you out.

Melissa Breau: Yeah. Yeah. When we're thinking about kind of airflow and then we're thinking about odor. Yeah. Does odor weigh down air? Does it, like how does that, how do odors themselves kind of move differently and do…

Stacy Barnett: Oh, it totally depends, right? So if you're doing nosework, okay, if you're doing nosework, you're using essential oil. Unless, unless you're in Sweden, I know in Sweden they use hydrosols, which is actually even lighter than essential oil anyway. If we use essential oil, right? Essential oil is, we call it volatile. It has a very high vapor pressure. When something has a high vapor pressure, that means that it takes a lot of pressure from the atmosphere to keep those molecules from escaping off the Q-tip basically is what we're saying. So because it has a high vapor pressure, that means that those molecules diffuse off that Q-tip rapidly and, and it creates this big cone. The other thing to know about essential oil is that it's very buoyant. That odor is very buoyant. It lofts up very easily. It gets lifted with the sun, for instance, or with temperature. So like if you set a hide, and a lot of people do this, like they set a hide and then they turn on the light cuz they wanna be able to see what their dog's are doing. Now, have you ever noticed like those old style light bulbs get, look, they're kind of get kind of warm, don't they? Yeah. So you don't wanna touch it to unscrew it, you know what I mean? Like, it's gonna burn your fingers, you have to let it cool off before you unscrew it, right? Well, that is enough to change your airflow in the entire room. So you, if you have that warm light bulb, right, that's actually gonna cause some temperature gradients in your room and it's gonna cause that odor to go up.

And that's just kind of like all a sudden, like I'll, I'll be watching a video and I'll say, you know, do you have a lamp on over to the left or do you have like a sun, a window, like off screen over to the right? If you're like, what, how did you know? I'm like, oh, you know, that's what your dog is telling me. It's kind of funny. Anyway, that's how essential oil moves. It gets big, it goes up, it lofts, it's like, it's kind of like picture your essential oil is kinda like a, like a, a like a plume of smoke that's kind of goes up, you know, it's, it's just, it's like a, I'm picturing like balloons in a, you know, like helium balloons, you know, it's, it goes up, right? That is essential oil. However, if you're working a different type of odor, your odor may behave completely differently. So for instance, a lot of our friends that do like search and rescue and maybe, maybe look for human remains. Now, just for the record, I don't, but I have a lot of friends that do. So, I'm not speaking from actually having said it, but I've been able to have the opportunity to watch a lot of dogs work it, right? That odor is going to be a little bit heavier, so it's not going to loft up as much, right? So you're gonna see that there's gonna be differences in types of odor, some types of odor, depending on what your dog actually looks for, may have a smaller scent cone. So like a smaller picture than dogs that are working essential oil. The differences are just gonna be a little bit different based on the chemical properties of what you're looking for.

If you're looking for food, it's also going to be, it's, it's gonna behave differently. Food odor behaves differently than essential oil. You know, everything is gonna behave differently depending upon the chemical properties. Air flow is the same, but how that odor moves within that airflow is going to depend on the chemical properties of what is producing that odor of the molecules that are escaping from your hide.

So for essential oil, it gets big, it goes up, you know, if you're doing other stuff, it may not, it may drop a little bit more easily or it may not get as big or it may pool more versus creating kind of a big dense cloud. And then, and then, oh my gosh, when you have that right and you have that, that big buoyant big odor, then you add, then you add a, you add the sun, okay, then you, you've got the temperature coming in. This is why this is all tied together, right? Then you get some, the temp, the sun coming in and now not only is it big and voluminous, now it expands, okay, this is kind of like, oh, you know, you, okay, you, you put, you put something in your microwave and you kind of seal it up, right? It's gonna kind of, you know, if you're not careful, you, you've gotta, you've gotta vent it, right? It's the same idea. Our, when you add heat to something,

it energizes all of those molecules and when it energizes those molecules, they expand. So when you energize odor or air actually air and then odors in the air, it's just gonna expand. So when you're gonna see that odor is just gonna expand. So when you have big odor like we have with essential oil and you have that has a high vapor pressure, it's, it's, it's got this big buoyant odor and then you add, you know, warmer, you know, you add heat to it, it's just gonna get bigger. So, and all of this now your, your, your dog has to go out and actually figure all that out and, and, and they, they, and don't forget, they have no idea like what the rules of the game are or anything like that. So this is all they, they just kind of play along and do their thing.

Melissa Breau: So two kind of follow up questions in there. Yeah. So the first one you're talking about how heat impacts odor. Does that mean in a warmer room the odor is actually likely to travel further?

Stacy Barnett: It's gonna expand. I mean, if it's a room, you know, you, you do have some walls, right? But it's gonna, it's gonna go out different places. But what you're gonna find is that it may, it, it depends on where those temperature sources are coming from. It may get big, but then it may also stay higher to the ceiling.

It depends on if you have windows, like if you have skylights or something, it's just gonna pull that odor right up. If you have high ceilings, it's gonna pull that odor right up. But you are gonna find that that odor is just going to expand just a little bit more. So let's say you have, and then it's also gonna vary on how much odor you put out.

So let's say you put out a really strong hide and it's being exposed to a sunbeam or something, your dog is gonna come in and it's gonna be like odor soup, right? So if you have, you know, if you put out less odor and it's set in a cooler part of the room, you know it's not gonna, it's not gonna be as big.

So it's really gonna depend on the micro, you know, what, what's happening near the hide. Like do you have temperature or gradients affecting, you know, right there at that hide that's gonna, that's gonna make a big difference. And then if you put out more than one hide, you know, you're, you're really kind of, you know, complicate things.

Melissa Breau: Yeah, yeah.

You know, like, oh my gosh, our dogs are amazing, you know, they're really amazing.

Yeah, they're really amazing. My other follow up questions, so I know there are different essential oils that you search for. They all kind of similar enough that kind of the same basic principle to play. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. There there's not gonna be that much of a difference between the, the different essential oils. I mean probably like a minor difference. I mean there is gonna be a minor difference, let, let's face it, but probably not enough that we would see as humans in terms of the dog's behavior. As long as, you know, your dog is working and conditioned on the odor and they understand that the odors that they'retrying to search for, you know, they should, they should all really behave similarly. I mean I don't think you'd be able to see your dog working go, ah, I think that's birch. You know?

Melissa Breau: Right, Right.

Stacy Barnett: You could look at and go, hmm, that is not essential oil, that is novel odor. Keep moving.mI mean you should be able to see the differences there. Now whether or not we can tell the differences and we always call it correctly in a trial, yeah, maybe, you know, but that, that's training and experience.

Melissa Breau: Yep. Yeah. So we just talked a whole bunch about some of these different pieces. So how can kind of having a better understanding of those pieces of how airflow kind of impact things affect a handler's ability to set hides in training and then ultimately, you know, kind of handle their dog in competition?

Stacy Barnett: Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. And, the class I'm doing is probably gonna be more like more exterior stuff, you know, we're gonna get into some of the interior stuff, but a lot of it's gonna be kind of more the, you know, using different types of airflow to help to educate the dog.

Some of it we'll be able to do inside, a lot of it will have to do outside, but if you can use this information to do your planning when you do your setups, it can be so much more powerful. I have a, I have a sample lecture on my class actually that if you wanna take a, if you guys wanna take a look at that, it's, it's actually kind of cool because what you can actually do, it's really cool, I, I use the my radar app to understand what the, where they're prevailing when was gonna go. And you can, if you can see or where the forecasted prevailing wind is going to what direction that's gonna look like. And then actually you can actually go to like Google Earth and take a look at the search area you wanna use and you can try to figure out like which way the wind is gonna be going.

You can actually help to plan out what you may wanna do when you get to the location where you're gonna train and it can just help you to be a little bit more kind of thoughtful. Now you don't have to do that by the way, but it is kind of like a cool thing to do when you have a chance to just kind of put a little bit more structure around planning how you're gonna set your hides.

Because what we don't wanna do is just go to a new place and go, hey, this looks like a cool place to put a hide and then just kind of do that cuz you know, random training creates random results always. The other thing that you can do from a trialing perspective, I just did this actually pretty recently where I was at a trial and I used Google Earth again just to see like what the site looked like from above.

So when I saw the layout of the buildings, cuz we had these big huge search areas, this is where it, it really starts to play in when you have these big search areas where these really big search areas with multiple buildings that we were working between. And if I knew which way the prevailing wind was coming, I knew how that air was gonna wrap around the buildings.

And it helped keep me out of trouble because I knew based upon the prevailing wind and how that would, how that odor was gonna wrap around the buildings, I knew where the odor was likely to get trapped. And so when my dog actually went into that area, I was good and I did not call a false alert in there. And so you can do, you can do that, you can do that. We had this search area, it was really cool, it was like a combination interior exterior and it was kind of this, this replica main street, right? It was during a summit trial, replica Main Street was so cool and we also had, they had the doors open for like this barber shop and a bank, right? And I knew based on the airflow that that air would be moving would be blowing from across the street into the bank. So when my dog got in there right and she's working, oh, she's like, oh my gosh, there's so much odor in this bank. And when I realized that there wasn't a hide there, I immediately said we need to check across the street because I was already kind of thinking about the prevailing wind and yeah,

there were hides over there. So it, it really like that type of understanding can be really helpful. The other thing to kind of think about is that when you start to pay attention to how air moves, like for instance how it moves around a corner or how it moves off of vertical surfaces, these are things that we're gonna get into where we can start to understand what our dog looks like when they work that odor off of things like vertical surfaces or how they can use things like corners to get information about what the hide is doing.

Cuz very often the dog's not getting the information close to the hide. They have to get the information farther away from the hide cuz that's where the air starts to bend around different structures and when that odor's, that air is bending around different structures, they can get directional information off of those structures and start to work it back. And if we can train our eye and we can set hides in such a way that it will do that, not only will it help us to be able to recognize it when we see it, and will also help us to set hides in such a way that our dog actually experiences that. Because really with nosework, which is very different than a lot of other sports, we're not really doing the training directly. We're not directly training the dog. The odor is actually training the dog, right? We give the dog some parameters in terms of what we want, but ultimately how we set hides the odor does the education. So we need to be able to set a hide that then educates the dog. But we have to do that in a thoughtful way so that we're like, okay, well I need you to learn how to work the odor around the corner, right? And I need to be able to see what my dog looks like when they work that. So if I set a hi that will on purpose blow around the corner and maybe even catch on something in an alcove, maybe you're, you know, down the, down the way or whatever. And then depending upon how we approach it, we can learn a lot and, and our dogs can learn a lot more about the hide, Which I imagine would really strengthen their ability to correctly source in a trial situation, Right?

Melissa Breau: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Stacy Barnett: Cuz we're, I mean what we're doing is we're teaching the dog how to problem solve, right? It, it's not about it, it's actually, even though we're being judged on speed, for the most part, speed just means that the dog problem solves the hide quickly. But what we're really trying to do is teach the dog how to problem solve because again, it goes back to all, all odor behaves differently. So dogs don't necessarily kind of come outta the womb knowing what birch is gonna behave like, right? So we have to teach them that through the hide placement, you know, because they don't go, oh, I know exactly what that's gonna do, you know, because it's gonna, it's gonna behave differently than other other odors that they encounter.

Melissa Breau: Yeah. Yeah. So we talked a whole bunch about airflow and hide placement and kinda the trainer's role. How does who a dog is kind of playing into all this,

how do we kind of take in, you know, into account the dog's unique personality, maybe their skillset, maybe even their size, you know, what their strengths and weaknesses are? Yeah. When we're talking about all this stuff. Oh, totally. Cuz every dog's an individual, right? You're gonna find that there's gonna be, there's gonna be breed differences.

There are gonna be some dogs that will, based upon their genetics, they may hunt a little bit differently. It's really kind of cool when you see a dog that's like bread specifically for hunting. You start to see how they naturally work game, you start to see how they, you know, and they're Searchie, which is kind of cool. The other thing is that a dog's resilience is gonna also come into play.

So if we set something that's kind of really challenging, but we have a dog that's not really quite resilient or doesn't have the reinforcement history to let them feel like they can be successful, you may find that it, that may be too difficult for them. So you have to kind of regulate what you set out based on the dog's, the individual dog.

If you have a dog that's more resilient and has a very high natural desire to move out and seek out to hunt odor, you know, you can play a little bit more with that. The other part that you mentioned was the dog size. That's actually huge. And this is also where, you know, I've always, I'm gonna put a little plug in for my little dog,

why? Right. So I've always intellectually understood the challenges of small dogs. And I have to say now that I'm running why at the elite level now I know now I understand and it's like, it's the difference between, you know, kind like knowing or, or, or you know, like book knowledge versus know understanding. Right? It is different.

Right? And, and I always kind of intellectually knew it and now I kind of like really know it because even at the NW three level, the hides were not all that complex. But now he's moving into these elite level searches where I, you know, small dogs live in a different world. They really do everything above them traps odor. They catch odor farther from the hide and everything above them traps odor.

Now they have the same amount of time now your elite searches are compressed in time, bigger search areas, more difficult hides, right? More complicated search areas. And they're, and they are experiencing more information. So the more we can expose them to, and, and in this class we're gonna be doing a lot of single hide searches because that single hide can be very powerful to teach them how that odor moves.

The more we can expose them to that, the more they can learn how to problem solve in a way that will make them more effective and and efficient. I guess actually both effective and efficient, right? Be able to solve it within a given amount of time because how the dog experiences the odor based on their height is huge, given unlimited time, no problem.

But the problem is when we start to, to compress that search time. So that's the reason why we really need to like those, those small dogs really have to, you've gotta work stuff like this so that they can really understand that odor behavior. But yeah, short dogs, yeah. You know, they're like taller dogs can kind of run into it.

Like they can, they can catch that odor and their nose is above the height where a lot of that stuff gets trapped. So it's, it's actually in a lot of cases, usually a little bit easier for them. Shorter dogs. Yeah, they, they've had they have it harder. Yeah, they can do it but yeah, they have it harder and like I said,

I didn't like really, really understand that. I think, I mean always, always like, oh yeah, yeah, they can do it, they can do it now. I'm like, whoa, that's tough. Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can totally do it, but it's tough. It's tough. So it sounds like,

like a lot of this is, you know, a little bit of a balancing act, right? We need to kind of set up hides to help our dogs learn how to source those more complex problems. We also need to learn as hand layers kind of how to read what our dog is telling us about where the odor is coming from. So you're talking about like kind of understanding,

oh this is how my dog behaves in the odors around a corner and some of those pieces. And then we need to be able to then read those things and train the dog at, you know, the dog gets better, your reading skill gets better. It's just, it sounds like there's a lot of pieces there to level up. Can you just talk about kind of that balancing act piece a little bit?

Yeah, that's actually the reason why I suggest when we're doing this to know where the hides are placed, kind of the balancing act that you're talking about. A lot of that has to do with whether or not we know where the hides are or if we're working blind hides, right? We're, well we don't know where they're set and there's a purpose to both types of hides.

So if we want to teach the dog problem solving, right, you need to know where the hides are located. If we want to teach the handler how to read the dog, for the most part we wanna do known hides again, because then what, you know, where that hide is located. So then you're like, okay, well now my dog is showing me in odor behavior a hundred feet to the right,

which cuz you know, cuz we're talking big buoyant odor. I've seen my dogs get in odor a hundred feet away from the hide, right? So that you can start to understand what that their behavior looks like as they get closer and, and all the different nuances, you know, when they work around the different structures. So that can really help to train your eye.

The other half of that is a blind hide and blind hides train the handler and it really has very little believe it or not very little useful value to the dog, but it trains the handler to give the, the handler confidence and understand when things are cleared and when they aren't cleared. And it and blind highs are really just actually it's testing, it's not really training.

I have to, I have to tell you that it's really not training blind heiser testing. So when we're training, having that, that, that knowing where that hide is located can help to maintain some of that balance. Sometimes we do have to kind of push the handler a little bit and we do a bit of blind stuff with blind heizer testing is not really training Interesting.

Yeah. The whole testing versus training thing is, is not his, not just nosework, it's all sports. Right. You know? Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's all sports. So, and then having that single hide search, it also gets a no. Yeah, nosework is just dog training. You know, sometimes we, we kind of think it's like this,

like this woo woo, woo voodoo type of whatever, right? It is just dog training. You know, we, we split, we split what we're trying to train. We do those single hide searches. That's what we're gonna be doing with the airflow class. It's splitting, right? We're one concept, one just one. Let's work on one concept at a time,

right? It's, we use splitting, we use, you know, or it is all about clarity. It's all about, you know, the, you know, using the different Ds and everything, right? It's just dog training, so, yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned the class. Let's, let's talk a little more about the class in particular.

What are you kind of covering in that class that are prerequisite skills teams need? Like what level should people be at? Oh Yeah, do that. It's, it's gonna be a little bit of an exploratory class. So a lot of it is going to be teaching a lot of scent theory. There's gonna be a lot of scent theory in it, but there's also gonna be some experimentation where I want you to try to cre you know,

give yourself a little bit more, I want you to do a little bit more planning in terms of how you set your hides. We're gonna be exploring the different facets of how odor behaves when it goes around surfaces. How when the dog encounters diffuse odor, like so odor that may be widely dispersed and away from source. You know, there's a lot of learning how to read your dog in those si sorts of areas a lot there,

there's gonna be a lot of skill building from that perspective. And because of that, the search areas that we're, I'm gonna be encouraging p people to use will be fairly large, right? So you're gonna wanna think about maybe making your search areas a little bit bigger than normal. This is not a class to take. And then go to your training building and to work in your training building where you work in all the time,

or a class where you can work in your house the whole time. I, you may find something you can do at home, but a lot of this is, you're gonna have to, you're really gonna have to get out and, and train in either novel places or places that you know that and, and you kind of know where the, what the airflow's gonna do.

So it's, it's gonna try, I'm gonna try to push people's boundaries just a little bit. And because of that, I would say it's a more advanced class. You know, it because you, you've gotta have a dog that's comfortable in Searchie those different areas. And if you are, if you're a more advanced handler and you are training mostly a home or mostly in your training building,

it's actually probably a pretty good class of maybe get you to bust out of that shell a little bit and go, you know, go out and look for different places to train. So it could, it can help you with that as well. But I would say it's definitely a more advanced class. It's definitely geared toward people are who are comfortable, Searchie,

bigger search areas. If you're, you know, kind of just started getting into that, it's probably not, not bad either cuz it can kind of push your comfort zone just a little bit. But also the cool part is, is I have a, I also have a really awesome teaching assistant who is highly, highly skilled in airflow also. So we have a lot of support for our,

for our bronze folks as well. So I just wanna wanna put that plug in as well. But yeah, I would, I would definitely say it's, it's a, it's more of a, of an upper level class, but, but it's gonna be, there's gonna be a lot of scent theories. So it's, it's just gonna have some really good information there and hopefully kind of push people to kind of think about how they set their hides in a way that will educate their dog using airflow.

So we're gonna be talking about like what drives airflow, like how to, how to leverage that, you know, how to teach, how to teach a dog to learn from that. Yeah. Yeah. What else do you have coming up on the schedule? Oh, I've got some, I've got some cool stuff. I've got another class actually that's all about inaccessible hides and,

you know, I was telling you that, you know, it's just dog training. We split split behaviors, right? So my inaccessible hides class, it's kinda like my container class that I just ran where I take something and I kind of, you know, break it out into the, the formula of pieces so that, you know, it's just splitting all the pieces out so that then when we put it together,

we have a really great performance. So the inaccessible class splits all that stuff out for your contained inaccessible, your deep inaccessible in your high inaccessible hides. I have that coming up. I have a workshop, well workshop currently going, but you know, depending on when this airs on multiple hide searches webinar coming up on, which is gonna be more like blowing odor,

we're gonna be using a lot of fan drills for that. That's coming up and I'm teaching NW one 20 this term, which is getting, taking those brand new skills. All those students learned in 1 0 1, they're going, oh my gosh, it was so, ah, the best 1 0 1. Well, they're all the best, but they're, they're all just really all these like,

oh, all the dogs Searchie these interiors, and now we're just gonna bust out of their shells. We're like, okay, now we're gonna, we're gonna take that and we're gonna create some really powerful, really like goods, beautiful Searchie solid foundations in the other elements. Get you out outside, get you Searchie vehicles, starting buried, doing some more containers,

you know, Searchie novel areas. That's where we make nosework really fun. We start, we start at NW one 20 to just say, all right, now the world is your oyster. That's what NW 20 is about. It's the world is your oyster. That's that class. Awesome. Any final thoughts or key points you kind of wanna leave listeners with?

Oh yeah. You know, you, you get what you reinforce and, and, and, and, and you, when you, and, and the other thing is that random training creates random results. And the idea behind doing, like for instance, these, this, these, this airflow class is to try to keep you from having those random results.

I want you to have good results. I don't want you to have random results. I want you to have really good results. So to have good results, you've, you've gotta learn about the airflow and you've gotta be able to leverage the airflow and you can use it in your trialing because then you understand what your dog is telling you because you've learned about airflow.

Awesome. If nothing else, that tip about checking the prevailing wind of a search area before you get there, like, I mean, I feel like everybody can just right after this go apply that, that piece suit. Oh yeah. I was there like nothing Else. I, I looked at the prevailing wind and I have an Apple watch and I'm like,

okay, let me look at my compass. All right, which way is north? I don't, I was probably, I don't know, maybe I was the only one there doing it. I'm like, which way is north? Which way is north? I'm like, oh, you know, wind's coming from the northeast. Okay. I'm like, cool.

All right, we're good. Of course, you know, when does shift a little bit, but you do have the prevailing wind, which is your, your primary. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. Yep. This is Awesome. All right, well thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Daisy. This was fabulous. Oh, this was a lot of fun.

This is a lot of fun. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week with Chrissy SCHs to talk about their latest adventures and building an excellent recall. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to our next episode, automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast, music provided royalty free by ben sound.com. The track featured here is called Buddy Audio Editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.


Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training! 

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