E256: Marjie Alonso and Denise Fenzi on the last Lemonade Conference

Today Marjie and Denise join me to talk about what's new at this year's Lemonade Conference and why it'll be the last annual online conference.


Melissa Breau: We all know the saying: "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade." Well, we'd like to invite you to do exactly that by joining us for the third annual Lemonade Conference on February 11, 12, and 13. Enjoy all of the awesomeness of a dog training conference from the comforts of your living room with leading experts from the worlds of dog sports and behavior. Head over to TheLemonadeConference.com to check out the schedule and buy your tickets today.

This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high-quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods.

Today I have Marjie Alonso and Denise Fenzi here to talk about the upcoming Lemonade Conference.

Hi Marjie, hi Denise — welcome to the podcast!

Marjie Alonso: Hey.

Denise Fenzi: Hey, you two. It's good to chat with you.

Marjie Alonso: Good to be here.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. To start us out, just in case there's anybody who somehow has managed not to get to know either of you, do you want to do quick self-introductions? Denise, do you want to go first?

Denise Fenzi: I'm Denise Fenzi. I'm the owner and founder of Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, and I'm a dog trainer who specializes in performance and sport dogs.

Marjie Alonso: I'm Marjie Alonso. I am now the executive director of the IAABC Foundation, which is different than the IABC. We just started about a year ago and that's what I do.

Melissa Breau: That's what you do, and you've got a Beagle.

Marjie Alonso: Not a dog, a Beagle. Exactly.

Melissa Breau: Just to make sure everyone listening is up to speed, does one of you want to just share some background how the Lemonade Conference came to be and the details for this year?

Marjie Alonso: Sure, I'll start that, if it's okay with you, Denise. When the pandemic first hit, which I believe is now seventy years ago or something, we all had these conferences that we were all waiting with bated breath to see if they were going to go ahead. We saw this thing really crashing down on us, and all of us were wondering what to do. I noticed also all of us in the training and behavior world were really struggling, as were people everywhere.

I reached out to Denise and I said, "You don't know me, but I stalk you. Why don't you think about doing something together?" Because she's awesome, she was like, "Yeah." We wondered what we could do for our combined communities. We had the sports dog people on her end, and the behavior and pro trainers — they cross over, obviously, both sides — on my end. We realized, as everyone does, I suppose, that we are one big community, and what we wanted to do was try to come up with something that would help lift people up out of this gloom.

It was in May or April when we did the first Lemonade. Melissa, you were there. You didn't blink for nine weeks that it took us to put this thing together or something. We said, "What can we do to really bring our community together, and try to make something that nobody had done before that would be as accessible as possible, and just give us a touch point for everybody to gather."

We did this insane things of fifty-six hours in three days, and we tried to schedule it for everywhere on the globe. Nobody slept and nobody blinked, and it ended up being something that was really meaningful, I think, to our community and certainly to our teams, to the IAABC Foundation and to FDSA. Don't you think, Denise?

Denise Fenzi: I think it was huge. It was huge at a time that people were very afraid and were not sure what would happen with their dog training businesses. We did quite a few scholarships that first year because there was so much unsureness. So yeah, I think it was absolutely a meaningful event. Right place, right time.

Marjie Alonso: We priced it as low as we could. We wanted to pay our presenters a fair wage, and we wanted to make it as affordable to everyone. Without travel expenses and things like this, it really became something that, as much as possible, everybody could take advantage of to have some place to gather with friends during this very scary and very weird time.

It turned into this wacky thing, and of course the most important thing was that you guys let me do these memes that were completely ridiculous, and I had more fun than I may ever have had in my life.

Denise Fenzi: Your memes were so awesome, Marjie. For my whole life I will think about you and memes.

Marjie Alonso: I'm not sure how I feel about that. I think very good. So that's what that was. When is it, Denise? When is this event, this last one?

Denise Fenzi: This last one is the 11th through 13th of this month. It's crawling up on us quickly.

Marjie Alonso: A week from when this airs.

Denise Fenzi: Why aren't we doing this for the rest of our lives? We certainly have toughed this one out.

Marjie Alonso: We have. Here's the thing. When we put this together, we said, "What can we do for our community?" We really did think that way, and we still do. And then we did a second one, and then we did this third one, and I think we've done what we wanted to do. I think we brought together our communities, we made this as affordable as possible, we brought together this incredible group of speakers, some of whom had never met before, all of whom are now interwoven into this giant basket of awesomeness across our platforms and across our community.

I think everything that we're offering through Lemonade, we're offering through the IAABC Foundation's education and FDSA's education, and as we move hopefully out of this pandemic in various ways, we're not going to stop all this education. I think that we did what we came to do, we provided what we hoped to provide. And now I think our teams deserve a little bit of a break. I think our energies can be a little bit … we can rest a little bit and do smaller, fewer than fifty-six hours in a weekend events.

But as I said to you one day, Denise, we could still do Lemonade shooters once in a while — small, joint events. But I think we've done what we wanted to do, and it's been meaningful to all of us. But I think everything we have provided we will continue to provide in our two platforms, and hopefully sometimes together, but not necessarily in this big, gigantic way. Honestly, it does use up a whole lot of energy and resources for all of us, and we're all tired.

Denise Fenzi: I look forward to the fact that in ten years we're going to look back, and people are going to say, "Do you remember the Lemonade Conference? Do you remember that? It was so big and exciting." Sometimes it's okay to let things go. There was a reason we did it. We already offered tons of education. As you said, it's not like the education goes away.

But the Lemonade Conference was such a special thing, and we're going to keep it that special thing by wrapping it up as we're all working our way into this pandemic and getting … I hate to say "comfortable" with it, but it's been three years, Marjie. I did not expect this to be the rest of our lives. Who knows what our futures all look like.

Marjie Alonso: There are other beverages that we can conquer.

Denise Fenzi: Next it will be the Margarita Conference, and then after that we're going to have the IPA Conference.

Marjie Alonso: If I'd known the Margarita Conference was even an option, I would have cancelled the Lemonade Conference after the first one.

Melissa Breau: Oh, man. The sad stuff about this being the last one, but it's still exciting. There's still good stuff to look forward to. Any speakers or talks that you're particularly excited about? Anything you want to share that attendees can expect this year?

Denise Fenzi: I did something really unusual. I actually did a little preparation for this podcast. Usually I just show up.

Melissa Breau: Are you sure this is Denise?

Denise Fenzi: "Do you want the questions in advance?" "No." I usually just go crazy wild — "It's going to be fun. It will be okay." But in my efforts to be a professional, I went ahead and reviewed the schedule. Now I've already obviously seen the schedule. I know it. But watching it all in one place, you're not getting off without listening to me, because I'm sitting here looking at Friday. Friday is one of three days. So let's look at the kind of thing we're going to talk about.

I want you to ask yourself are you a professional who's been around thirty years, you've seen it all, done it all? No, you have not. We have something for you. Are you a pet parent, no professional training interest? We've got something for you. Are you somewhere in-between? Are you a pet dog trainer with one year, five years, ten years, twenty years? Are you a sport enthusiast? I'm looking at this lineup and all I can say is these talks are incredible because they bridge those lines.

It's not like you won't understand Developing Behavior Management Plans for Challenging Environments if you don't have the basics, because anything you learn in a challenging environment you can obviously apply in a more simple environment.

There's Probiotics for Behavioral Health. Anybody can benefit from that topic. Raising and Training a Wiz Kid Performance Puppy — anybody can benefit from information about raising a puppy.

Dogs Healing Dogs: Using Social Facilitation in Behavior Modification — many, many of us do elements of training and behavior modification, but to learn the details as Trish helps us to understand what a dog can do to help another dog recover who fundamentally no longer trusts humans — that's very important, interesting stuff to me.

Arousal problems is a hot topic these days. How do you solve arousal problems with stations and platforms? If you're a sophisticated user, you're going to like that. If you're an entry-level user, you're going to like that. Precision Heeling Workshop — that's me. If you've got a Beagle that needs whipping into shape, I will expect you front and center.

Marjie Alonso: It won't work.

Denise Fenzi: Front and center, Marjie. Revisiting Reactive Rover —Kristina Spaulding is going to talk about what does it mean when we use that term. Maybe more importantly, now that we've defined it in the science-y sense, what do we know now to help us move forward with reactive dogs? That's important stuff.

Backchaining: The Only Chain Your Dog Needs — if you want to do complex behavior, you want to learn about that. It doesn't matter if you're a dog sports competitor or if you just want super-cool tricks.

Reward Ends: The Perfect Spot for Prevention and Problem Solving — that is sophisticated. Now you're pushing into you've got the basics of shaping and clicker training; how are you going to maximize every second of your training session for your dog?

And then the lunchtime panel. Mental Health for the Reactive Dog — that's with Amy Cook, Sarah Stremming, and Sophie Liu. Anybody can watch that. It's free, publicly available, it doesn't matter if you attend the conference. They're going to talk about how trainers can handle errors in training in a positive way.

Now guys, that was the morning. I can't go through the whole schedule. That's Friday morning, what I just described. You've still got Friday afternoon, Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, Sunday morning. I guess I don't have to go through all of them. You probably have the basic days of the week.

I'm just blown away by the quality of these, and I know I shouldn't say this, but in my opinion, this is our strongest lineup. Not necessarily presenter-wise; I think the topics do an amazing job of targeting so many different types of people who can appreciate them and come together and say, "Wow, that's super-cool." I think lots of people are going to be interested in learning about these topics, so I'm all a-twitter right now.

Marjie Alonso: I think what we did is we said, "If this is the last one, we're going to make it a cannonball of an exit." There are so many sophisticated and fun and playful and serious topics here that are being addressed on so many levels of experience and sophistication. I think you're right. I do think that there is nobody that won't benefit from this, and everybody will benefit from this.

The fact that they're there and everybody has them available for at least a year in both the Fenzi and IAABC Foundation accounts, and so you can look at these forever, if you have an active account for that long, or at least a year. Having this stuff available to reference I think is one of the really important aspects of these things, because they're deep. Some of them are thick. Some of them are not so thick. But if you want to go back and look at something, you can, and that's pretty important.

Denise Fenzi: I was trying to figure out, being the CEO of FDSA, personally I want to be able to see all of them in real time. I want to see all three presentations in every track.

Marjie Alonso: You need to get more TVs.

Denise Fenzi: I'm not sure how can we make that work out for me. I know the rest of the people have to watch …

Marjie Alonso: I don't think it would work out for you because sometimes you can't do Zoom. I'm not sure this is going to work for you.

Denise Fenzi: And then I have to compartmentalize my brain so I could take in the information about probiotics while learning about the reactive dogs while teaching, because I guess I've got to do one of those. That's got to be quite the party. Melissa, my understanding is we're going to have access to the presentations in the morning. Is that correct?

Melissa Breau: Yes. In both libraries the recordings will publish the morning of the talks. All of the prerecorded versions have captions, so that's an option for folks who want it or need it. That way, you can pre-watch those on your own schedule if need be, and then come to the live bit for Q&A, or you can attend them live and be here to watch them with other folks that are watching them and get in your questions and hope they have a chance to answer them.

Marjie Alonso: I think a lot of people don't know this. I want to say that the IAABC Foundation is not a member organization. It's different than the IAABC. You don't have to be a member of the IAABC Foundation to be seeing your stuff in our accounts either. Both FDSA and IAABC Foundation are available to whoever buys the conference or whatever, but it's not a member organization thing. Just like with Fenzi, it's yours for the viewing whenever you want, so don't be shy. Go into both.

Denise Fenzi: While I'm thinking about it, the presentations are all searchable. What that means is let's say somebody said something about a specific probiotic name and you couldn't remember it, but you knew it started with an "asper," you could type in "asper" and "search," and everywhere that was mentioned in the webinar, it will take you directly to that point in the webinar. That is a huge benefit, especially six months later, when you know somebody talked about something. How did she handle reactivity around cars? You can go back and you can search that and you can find it. It's an amazing …

Marjie Alonso: We have volunteers that are dedicating themselves to making sure that all those things are accurate right now. They are unsung heroes. They really are. They're making sure all of those terms are in there. They're doing a great job.

Denise Fenzi: It's quite a job. So you'll have access to this material in the two libraries. You'll also get some CEUs, if that's your thing, if you need them. Do you know the details, Marjie, of how it's working this year? I just know they're good for three years.

Marjie Alonso: There are something like 400,000 CEUs for this conference, but depending on the organization, 450,000. They're good for three years. This year we've even triple-checked all the presenters to make sure that the questions and the answers they give us are accurate.

Denise Fenzi: That's a benefit.

Marjie Alonso: What are you going to do? Geniuses. They're not always right.

Denise Fenzi: I think the full price is $229, so if you need CEUs, I can almost guarantee you that you're going to have a hell of a time finding a conference for $229 that will provide you with all the CEUs you can possibly hold for every organization for three years, and entertain you and educate you and all of these exceptionally nice side benefits. You have to show up. You must enroll. You must. This is not an option. You must.

Melissa Breau: Denise is going to insist.

Denise Fenzi: I insist. I am going to show up at your door and I am going to knock and ask why you have not signed up yet. You must enroll, get your seat, let's do this. And also you're putting this on a Friday, so the fifth, so you don't have much time. You only have a few days, so it's time. If you haven't done it, you're doing your procrastinator thing, I'll love you anyway, but you need to get enrolled. It is time to get signed up.

Melissa Breau: Speaking of that, do we want to mention that we're extending the scholarship deadline through Monday?

Marjie Alonso: No, let's not mention that, Melissa. Wait … we just did.

Denise Fenzi: Quick thing about scholarships. Scholarships have been fundamental to FDSA since the day we opened our doors ten years ago, and when Marjie and I talked about it, there was no question about the fact that there would be scholarships offered. Education is important. It's so important.

We feel highly committed — always have, always will — to accessible education. If this conference is not in your budget … and please don't get into the "Somebody needs it more than me." Let's not do that. If this conference is not in your budget, then you ask for a scholarship and you use that scholarship. We're proud that you're here and with us, and you should be proud of yourself for seeking out education. If you need a scholarship, get the scholarship.

Melissa Breau: Another thing that we haven't worked into all of this yet, but we're doing something new this year. We're doing three workshop-style talks. Do we want to talk a little bit about that?

Denise Fenzi: I will, because I'm doing one of them, so I guess I might want to start paying attention. In those three talks, in addition to giving you information, you're going to be given very specific steps to work on. Step one, step two, step three, like this.

And then there's going to be a period of time, like ten-ish minutes or something, when you are going to get up from your computer, go find your dog, and try it out. You can review the steps, because remember, you already have the presentation from the morning, so you don't have to memorize it or remember; you just have to pull it up.

You're going to try it, and then you're going to say, "It didn't work," because that's the nature of the beast. No problem. After the ten minutes there's going to be a Q&A, and you can come back and say to me, for example, "I've tried to pocket hand, and my dog's head was far away from my body." I am going to cheerfully tell you, "Your dog's head cannot be far away from your body if the pocket you made next to your side was less than four inches. Remember, it has to be really close to your body." And you're going to say, "Oh my God, you're a genius." And I'm going to say, "That's why they pay me to be here."

Melissa Breau: I think we've already done this presentation and we don't need to now.

Denise Fenzi: Most presentations you get the information, you go away, and maybe you're a little frustrated if you can't apply it, especially when it's very specific. This is going to give you an opportunity to pick up the step where you're at, because some of your dogs are going to know some of the things I describe already. And it's your chance to grab me and say, "I'm not succeeding, and oh, what the hell." Even if you've already done my presentations and you know this stuff and you're stuck in a more advanced step, I'll probably be good for that, so go ahead and ask me.

And during that ten-ish minutes when people are off training their dogs, if you're rocket-science fast and you already did it and you're back at the computer, or you pretended you did it but you didn't really because you already knew the questions you had, no problem. You can ask questions during that ten minutes and we will chat about that, or frankly anything you want, because it's not usually a problem getting me to talk. There are, on occasion, issues getting me to shut up. So the fact that I have a ten-minute extra window, I would come with your questions about this precision heeling stuff, and I'll give you what I can.

We're excited. There are three of us who will be doing this. Amy Cook's Play Way — you're going to get down on the ground and play with your dog. I'm going to do Precision Heeling, and you're going to stand up and act like an adult. And Sara Brueske is … what is she doing? What is her topic?

Melissa Breau: That is a great question. I don't know off the top of my head, but I can look it up. Sara is doing Happy Holds, so she's working on holds.

Denise Fenzi: That's excellent, because that's a great first step kind of a thing. You can come back and say, "He keeps dropping it on my foot," and she is going to give you some ideas for that.

The workshop thing is kind of cool. I'm looking forward to getting to chat with some people about that.

Melissa Breau: Good stuff. You mentioned in some of the information on this being the last year, both organizations still have a ton of educational opportunities, a bunch of options coming out and currently available. Do you each want to talk a little a bit about the various organizations, what you have going on, and what's on offer? Marjie, do you want to start?

Marjie Alonso: We have so much really exciting going on with the foundation. The IAABC Foundation does have obviously education. We've got Jim Crosby's Forensics of Aggression course and we've got Canine Social Behavior with Camille Ward, and we've got Kristina Spaulding's courses, which are incredible, including Fundamentals of Ethology, all sorts of other courses that are going on, Cat Behavior Consulting Mentorship with Katenna Jones, other mentorships including Beginning Behavior Consulting for those who want to get into it.

But the foundation is also a human/animal and animal wellbeing place that we're building. We have some programs, Darwin's Ark Cancer Project, we are hosting the group for people whose dogs unfortunately have cancer. The Darwin's Ark team is doing a lot of research on cancer. Not just the genomics of it, but also with questionnaires learning about how people make decisions about treating their dog's cancer, people who have had cancer, do they make different decisions about treating their dogs. And the foundation is hosting the Facebook group that offers support and information for those people that are enrolled in it. DarwinsArk.org is their website.

We have a diversity, equity, and inclusion initiative going on right now that is quite big, and we're gathering as much data as we can to then give freely to all organizations that want it. There is a questionnaire that we're encouraging people to fill out, and we're doing listening sessions. We're going to be doing a Facebook Live in March. IAABCFoundation.org is our website and there will be more information there, if you go to look at our different programs.

We also have Access Academy, where we're going to be providing education free of charge to incarcerated people who are doing a lot of dog training but not necessarily getting ongoing quality education that can help them in their careers if they do get out, and if they don't get out, just help them with their interest in training.

So we're trying to do a whole lot for people and for people that work with animals in amplifying the good and amplifying opportunity. It feels very important to us that we bring our community as much opportunity and access as possible. We hope that people will join us in what feels like an exciting and important next step in the development of IAABC and the IAABC Foundation. Our courses are incredible, as are Fenzi's, and so we hope that you'll look at all of these and see the difference and the incredible variety that all of our communities have to offer. IAABCFoundation.org and of course the IAABC Journal is part of the foundation's work as well, soon changing its name to the IAABC Foundation Journal, is there for free for everybody, peer-reviewed articles.

Denise Fenzi: I love how much IAABC is focused on what you do at the foundation. It is education. It's about making things better. You guys do a fantastic job of covering a lot of range and trying to make it a better place in the dog world. I salute what you do there, and appreciate you, and I'm really proud that you and us … that we are the organizations that partnered, because I feel so good about … it's about public/private, really, but FDSA is clearly a private organization.

You hear this, people talking about how organizations can come together. I'm just going to say this. I normally don't bring up stuff like this, but I'm going to say it. The first year we didn't know if we would lose money on the Lemonade Conference, and FDSA said they would cover the difference. We said if it ended up being a loss, then that was fine. We did a little calculation and math, and we decided that that's part of giving back to your community, and sometimes you take some risks.

But IAABC did not require that going in. It was just that IAABC was in a tight spot — very tight spot because you were losing your funding — and FDSA, as a responsible community partner, was in a better place to make that decision. And so we did, and I think that was great.

Our classes, if people want to look them over, they're highly complementary. We do different things with different focuses. Originally FDSA was very dog sports focused, and I will say that that has changed. Over time, we've expanded into behavior, but we approach it differently. We are very … gosh, I hate to use this word, but regimented. We're regimented. February 1 we have six weeks of classes. April 1 we have structure. Thursday nights are the webinars, 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. Every month we do somewhere between four and eight workshops.

They're very structured, very reliable, and they're highly complementary to what IAABC does, which is a little bit more focused on that pet professional who really wants to be the best behavior consultant out there, and we don't spend a lot of time in that area. We definitely focus more in the straight-up pet parent because we have a whole video library for pet parents, the dog sports community, the pet professional who wants to take a class on something like wellness for the performance dog and such. But super-complementary, and I'm super-excited that you're out there with us.

Marjie Alonso: Really, you allowed us to have a lot of opportunity that we wouldn't have gotten. You were a seatbelt at a time when we were sliding. The ability of our teams to say, "What the hell, let's try this" — I don't know that anybody really understands what a risk we took and how grateful we are to have partnered with you guys and to have had you be the seatbelt. It was really meaningful when you said, "If we lose money, we'll cover it." That was incredible and will never be forgotten by a very grateful community.

Probably people listening to this are going, "Jesus Christ, would you guys get a room," but I really do think that we're proud of what we've done, we're proud to have done it with you, we're grateful for the opportunity, we're very grateful for the community that we've built that now knows about you and knows about us. We have this cross-community now that we didn't have before. It's exciting moving forward and it's a little sad to leave it, but it also means that we get 400 million hours back that we can work toward other things. So I'm grateful to have had this opportunity. I'm grateful to the people who attended. Really, without that, this would not be. And really happy that we have done all this together.

Denise Fenzi: Those volunteers — to say they worked hard would be such an understatement. You really cannot imagine the hundreds of hours of volunteer and FDSA staff time that went and continues to go into this event. My heartfelt, from the bottom of my heart, thank you to every person who is helping us out, especially that first year when the hours were long and there was more work than we knew than we were getting into. You guys are superstars.

Marjie Alonso: Yeah, really, truly, and still. The hours are still really long. Let's not lie.

Denise Fenzi: We work them and we chain them and we let them out for dinner and that's what's important. They work terribly long hours, but at least they get nothing for it. They're just good people.

Marjie Alonso: That's really great. Thank you to all of the Lemonade volunteers. What incredible people.

Melissa Breau: To round things out, ladies — not that you both haven't already done this a little bit — any other takeaways that either of you want to share from hosting the conference three years in? Any lessons?

Marjie Alonso: Oh God, what haven't we covered? Is anybody still listening? Because at this point they've walked away a little bit nauseous, like they've had too much cotton candy.

We keep repeating it, but just that I think that moving forward I think that we could do some really fun things on a maybe smaller basis, like maybe not fifty-six hours at a time. But I do think that what this shows me, shows us, is that there's really fun things we could do if we just say yes.

All good improv is based on saying, "Yes, and …" "Do you want to do something together?" "Yes, and let's make it even bigger than we ever imagined it." I think "Yes, and …" is always the answer to stuff, and I think "Yes, and …" got us some really great new friends and opportunities and audiences. "Yes, and …" is what I'd like to keep doing moving forward with you guys. Who knows what we will come up with and what beverages we will explore.

Denise Fenzi: You're there being all lofty. I'm going to get down in the dirt. You said something that's important and it was about food, snacks. You specifically mentioned cotton candy, but that's not what I want to talk about. It is important to keep yourself fed and hydrated through the Lemonade Conference.

Make sure you head to the store, purchase appropriate snacks, and then join the Lemonade Conference Facebook group, because what will happen is as you are eating your morsels and washing them down, you're going to be hanging out with other people who are going to be watching the same things as you, you're going to be sitting in that webinar room, chatting with other people, going, "Oh my goodness, it's so great to see you here, what do you think about this?" Make it an event, and you really can't have an event if you're not eating and drinking. Drink what you want.

Marjie Alonso: It is Valentine's weekend, so that candy will be on sale. Valentine's candy on sale.

Denise Fenzi: Get the candy, get the lemons, get the things you need to be very comfortable, because three days is a long time and a lot of information, and sugar is good for the brain. It helps with the energy, right?

Marjie Alonso: I'm sure there's science there somewhere.

Denise Fenzi: And throw on a little protein for good measure, like beef jerky or something like that. Get yourself all set up for the weekend, get registered, and super-excited to see you there.

Marjie Alonso: That was very helpful of you, Denise. That was very helpful.

Denise Fenzi: Because there you are saying all the lofty things. I felt like, "What am I going to say now?"

Marjie Alonso: I'm lofty, but you're thinking of their health.

Melissa Breau: Thank you both so much for carving out some time to do this tonight. I appreciate it.

Marjie Alonso: Thank you very much.

Denise Fenzi: Thank you, Melissa. Always good to see you.

Melissa Breau: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in! We will be back next week with Shade Whitesel to talk about toy play.

If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.


Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in — and happy training!


Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training! 

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