E221: Nancy Gagliardi Little - "What it takes to learn agility"

Learning agility and having the skills to be able to learn agility well are two separate things! In this cast, Nancy and I talk about the critical but often overlooked skills dogs need to be able to learn and compete in agility. 


Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high-quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods.

Today I have Nancy Gagliardi Little here with me to chat about agility training — specifically we're talking about the skills that folks often overlook that can really make a difference to help agility dogs learn their best.

Hi Nancy, welcome back to the podcast!

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Hey Melissa, good to see you. I guess good to hear you.

Melissa Breau: Good to hear you too.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Hopefully see each other soon. Hopefully down the road at camp, when that happens.

Melissa Breau: Yeah, I think Ohio next, right?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Yeah.

Melissa Breau: To start us out, do you want to remind listeners who you are, who your dogs are, maybe share a little bit of your background?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: You bet. I live in Minnesota, and there's a lot of us up here, but I grew up here. Hate the winters and the cold, but absolutely love our spring, summer, and fall seasons here, so I live for this time of year. This is the perfect time of year for me.

I've always loved dogs and horses. I've put multiple championships on my dogs in obedience, herding, and agility. We've competed and placed at many national events in obedience and agility.

I actually started out competing in obedience with an incredible first dog. It was a Labrador Retriever, and we went from Novice A to an OTCH. I was pretty proud of that. He also did scent hurdles and flyballs. That's something I haven't done forever. He was the second inductee into the Flyball Hall of Fame. There's plenty of dogs out there since him, but a claim to fame with him.

Soon after I finished our OTCH, I started judging obedience. I was in my late 20s then, and twenty-two years later I retired from judging. I did a lot of judging, a lot of traveling to judge, and I had the opportunity to judge tournaments and national events over the years, so that was really fun. Once I got more involved in agility and herding, it was harder and harder to justify or enjoy my trips. I enjoyed judging, but I'd rather be home training my dogs, and I was burned out on the travel. Once I got there, I was fine.

I teach online classes for FDSA, and I also teach locally at a wonderful facility here in Minnesota called On The Run Canine Center. We have lots of trials and lots of great trainers and wonderful students and a great owner.

I do privates and classes there.

My dogs — most of them have been Border Collies, besides the Lab. I was looking back, and I think I have trained and competed with eight Border Collies now over the years. Currently I have Lever, he's a Border Collie, and he is working in herding, agility, and obedience. I play around in obedience. I may get back in the ring again, who knows?

Pose is Lever's daughter. She's 2, and she's working on herding and agility. We're competing in agility. She's one of the dogs that was actually ready to go when the pandemic hit. She's doing really good because I've had plenty of time to train her.

And then I have a little rescue Chihuahua/Poodle mixie-mix, 8 pounds, and her name is Differ. She's been training mostly in agility, and I've been toying around with doing a little obedience with her. Who knows; we'll have to think about that.

Anyway, that's a little bit about me.

Melissa Breau: I hadn't realized she had poodle in her. That's funny. I don't see that when I look at her.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: No, no, and I guess she could take the Chihuahua coat, but she's a great little dog.

Melissa Breau: Sounds that way. I wanted to chat today, talk about your upcoming FDSA class. To jump in, is there a story behind why you created the class? What inspired it? I guess we should start with what it's called.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: I know it's glue skills. I'm not even sure the exact name, but it's my glue skills class.

Melissa Breau: The glue for future agility stars.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Yeah. I know I had a couple names for it. This will be the third time I've run it, I believe. I've been running it every six months and it's been really popular. I'm very happy. I wasn't 100 percent sure that people would really like this, because these skills are not necessarily the sexiest skills to teach. Agility training is so exciting, and the dogs love it, and the handlers want to get right down and start training it. So I wasn't 100 percent sure how people would take it.

It's been a really important bunch of skills for me to teach my dogs. Why I created it is that, as you know, the agility environment is really difficult for the dogs, especially at the trial, but even classes can be that way. There's a lot of seminars and great instructors, some clinicians traveling around when they can.

In order for the dogs to be able to handle and learn, they've got to have some skills on them to deal with that high energy, people running, dogs running, loud noises like the teeter and the tunnel, barking dogs. There's tons of stuff going on there, just a really challenging environment. So one of the things is how can we get these dogs to learn better, to be able to cope better.

The other thing is there's plenty of really good trainers around the country that know how to train obstacle skills, but they struggle with focus issues. These are good trainers, and we all struggle with focus issues in some way or another. But with these skills, it really helps a dog be able to understand and be able to cope with the environment and to learn better.

I was thinking about the skills I've taught my dogs over the year that helped them cope during all of these things, and I always refer to those skills as the glue that built a foundation for learning. But I shortened it to just "glue skills," and people seem to always like that. It makes sense because it holds everything together.

The other thing, too, is it's not just the skills for the dog. We'll talk about that a little bit later too. It's also the handler learning how to communicate effectively with their dog. That's super-important to me. And as you know, the dog has the final say as to whether the handler's been clear or not. There might even be some other skills, depending on the dog. I think I've added some, depending on my various dogs, what I see. They might need something else. But basically I have some core skills that are important to me to teach the dogs.

The one thing I want to mention, too, a couple things, is these skills are not just critical for agility. I developed them mainly for agility because the dogs struggle so much with the environment, but they're also really good for any dog sport. All dogs can benefit from these skills. It's just agility dogs benefit the most.

The other thing I just want to mention here really quickly, too, I made a note here about Differ. It's been, like, a year ago, like, in late March that I got her as a rescue dog. The reason why I got her is while the pandemic happened,

everything was shutting down, and I thought, "I have this new class coming, and I could teach all the skills to a fresh dog, rather than using my dogs to demo it."

She was 4-and-a-half months old, I think — around 4, I can't remember exactly — when I got her. Also she's a small dog, she's 8 pounds. I thought, "Okay, it's totally different" — that's why her name is Differ — "she's smaller, and it will be good, because all the videos and the learning will be on a dog that's a little bit different approach for me."

And then, as I was telling you before we started recording, she started trialing this weekend, after all the training I've done with her with the glue skills and then building on that, and she was amazing. She just went above and beyond my expectations. She was focused and ready to go, and I couldn't have been happier. So she's pretty much the dog in all of the videos for this class.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. We've talked about the inspiration, and you mentioned that there are all these skills included. So what are they? Let's go for it.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: One of the most important skills to me is what most of us call "standby," which is a default eye-contact behavior. That's super-important for me.

Stationing, where the dog has a place to go to wait until they're called off or released from, they learn to wait, a release and a wait skill, which go hand-in-hand. In order to have a nice wait, the dog really has to understand a release cue.

I have transport skills that are trained skills. They're not just things that you do to your dog without training them. They need to be trained. A down-stay is super-important to me. Even a small dog can do a down-stay, in spite of what people think.

I have some things with the collar. I have collar-give, so the dog learns to come to my hand. Instead of me grabbing the collar, the dog brings the collar to me. And collar and leash pressure, moving the dog in space so they respond to that.

One thing I added with Differ is … things that people struggle with small dogs is they don't necessarily want to be picked up. So I work pretty hard at consent to pick up the little dogs, so that that they accept it. I won't say they're reinforced by it, but they allow it. They do want to be on the ground, so I've added that.

One other thing that is part of my glue skills, but it's more training that happens before trials — it can happen before, it can happen during, and actually we train this in this class — but I do this training a lot of times closer to the trials, or at least review it again because it's more important: the remote reinforcement, teaching the dog to accept that the reward is not on you. That's something we can start right away, but then refresh a lot down the road right before trialing.

Melissa Breau: Without these skills, what kind of problems tend to pop up if dogs haven't been through the program, or if their handlers haven't really thought about the need for these base behaviors? What can go wrong?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: You want me to go through each of those?

Melissa Breau: Up to you. You can do a couple or you can do each of them, if you want.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: The standby. I found that the more I teach this to dogs, or the more my students teach it to their dogs, the better the dogs understand duration, because standby is basically default eye contact, and the dogs learn from behavior, the handler, that something's coming, so instead of offering behaviors, they wait for cues.

I want that to be the default, instead of the dog saying, "Nothing's going on. Well, let me try this." As you can imagine in agility, that can be very confusing, if the dog thinks they should be offering different behaviors. Offering behaviors isn't a bad thing, but when you're trying to teach skills, it may not be exactly what you want.

Stationing is going to prevent issues — again duration issues, is going to help your dog with start lines, it's going to help the dog with the environment because it ends up being a fairly safe place for dogs that have environmental issues or focus issues, where they're watching everything in their environment. That really helps them feel safe. It also helps them to self-regulate. They learn to be able to control their energy. Sometimes they're a little bit high, sometimes they can pull back.

The other thing that I find is that it is going to prevent some unwanted behaviors in some of the training. You can eliminate that by sending to the station. So there's lots of things there that stationing will prevent.

The release or the wait, the release-wait, again that's going to prevent or help the dog with duration issues and obviously start line issues, not waiting for the proper cue, and even stopped contact issues.

Transport is going to help clean up some messy training. It's going to allow you to be a little bit cleaner with your training, maybe, and for the dog's sake it's going to keep the dog focused and eliminate unwanted behaviors between repetitions.

The down-stay is my go-to. I use it a lot in agility. It takes a while to get the full behavior trained in that environment. Especially I use it when I wait in the queue for my run to happen. But most of the time my dogs … as a young dog, Pose, I started her in the queue waiting on her station. I did that for a while because I knew she wouldn't be able to handle the down-stay. But I gradually worked little pieces of the down-stay in, and now she can wait in the warm-up area in the queue, waiting for our turn, and she can stay in the down-stay. So that's an important thing. It's important, if you want to listen to your instructor or a clinician, to be able to stick your dog into a down, rather than just having them running around or losing energy and losing focus. So that's a super-important one for me.

The collar-give, as you can imagine, it's going to prevent that darting away and not really understanding what you're doing when you're bending over. Sometimes the dogs can't predict what you're going to do. You're quickly grabbing towards them, they're not really sure what's happening, and so I like to have that knowledge from the dogs so that they always know what's happening.

Pressure on the collar and leash. You want them to be able to move about and not be resistant to that movement, because there's a lot of things going on in the agility environment. You have to navigate through crowds and different areas, and you don't want a dog that's pulling you, so that helps that.

I think you know the remote reinforcement I talked about a little bit. There's a lot of stress in dogs when they're running agility. They don't really know when the reinforcement is coming. There can be slow starts. There can be arousal issues at the trials because they're basically taught "trials, no rewards" and in training "always rewards in the ring." Handlers have a tendency to just throw that on the dog, so I like to start that a little bit early because there's a lot of layers there, and also so handlers can see how important it is. so that they do it later on and they revisit that later on.

I think I got everything.

Melissa Breau: I think so. Let's drill in on some of those in particular. Start with the focus-with-standby behavior. Do you want to talk some more about why that's so important for our agility dogs in particular?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Sure. I definitely want to talk about this one, because this is one that's under most people's radar, and I don't think they understand how confused dogs can be.

The standby behavior, as I talked before, it's a default eye contact and it helps a dog with duration. It's basically teaching the dog to wait for a handler to cue, and the presentation or the cue for that behavior is a quiet handler that makes eye contact with the dog.

When that happens, what I want to do is teach the dog that something's coming, that there's information coming, that there's a cue coming. I want the dog to learn that quiet handler, their eye contact, means something fun is going to happen, or interesting.

The way we do it is a long history of rewards for the dog learning that we break it down. But what can happen is it has a huge impact on the start line, because the release cue — it's one of the core pieces in my start line class because of the release cue. What can happen is, if they don't understand "quiet handler, eye contact," what can happen is the dog starts throwing behaviors, or the dog thinks they're wrong, and they need to be doing something.

We end up training our dogs to do that, because what happens a lot when a dog makes a mistake is the handler stops, they again quiet handler, looks at the dog, and pauses, and the dog's like, "Oh crap, I need to do something else," and then it's a big guessing game by the dog as to what they should be doing. So they end up throwing behaviors out, and then all of a sudden they hit the behavior that the handler wanted and the dog gets reinforced.

What we end up doing is teaching the dog that when there's quiet, handler's quiet, eye contact, they need to throw another behavior at you. That ends up being very conflicting cues to the dogs to expect them to be able to pause and wait for handler information, but at the same time throw a behavior because they're wrong.

So I want to clean that up, and I want to help the dog understand that when the handler is quiet and there's eye contact, that means something's coming, so pay attention and something fun will come. That's going to have a huge impact, and it will have a big impact on any dog sport, actually. That's why that one is really important for me. I'm not sure if that made sense to you.

Melissa Breau: Yeah. It's the idea of understanding to almost understanding stimulus control. The idea of understanding to wait for the cue.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Exactly. It's important not to teach these dogs two different things. If you're shaping, you should be able to tell the dog by how you approach shaping that that's what's happening. We don't just want the dogs to throw behaviors at us. We want them to understand that there is something coming. And so exactly, it's stimulus control. Basically it's putting something on a verbal cue and having the dog understand that that's coming.

Melissa Breau: What about transport techniques? Did you want to talk a little more about that?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Those are important to me too. I think I've mentioned it before. It's really important to train them and not just move the dog from one place to another.

One of the most important ones for me is a treat magnet. You have to actually train it. Most people, what they do is they lure the dog. They'll lure the dog with food in front of them to try to draw the dog towards. This is completely different. This is food on the nose and the dog keeps nibbling at it. I really go into a lot of detail how to do that, being able to move the dog from one place to another so that they don't lose their focus. That helps set the training up.

There's many different ways to transport. Basically, transport is just taking a dog from one point to another, and sometimes it's not much movement at all. So the treat magnet, there's also tugging, you can do that. But when you use tugging, you've got to have some good toys skills and no conflict if the dog's got to be able to release the toy easily. Picking up a small dog — if you reinforce that enough, that can be a method of transport.

Sending a dog could be a method of transport. I've used that a lot for training with Differ. I don't know what I would do without the stationing, the transport, using stations. I can set up different weave entrances and know precisely what I worked on the previous rep, and I just send her back to the station and we start again. Same thing with contacts. Those things all need to be trained, and there's many, many different ways to move the dog from Point A to Point B.

Melissa Breau: We've talked a little bit about standby, we talked a little bit about transport, I think the class also goes into ring entrances and exits. I think most people get why those are important, being able to enter the ring and exit the ring well, but can you talk about what it is you want to see there, and how you actually go about teaching that as a skill?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Sure. There's a lot of confusion about ring entrances and exits by the dogs, because, like I mentioned before, the handlers don't always teach the dogs to work without rewards on them before going into the ring. That means that the dog's learning that the agility ring in trials has no rewards.

We want to be able to set the dog up so that they have some knowledge of how they're going to get reinforced, because the rewards are going to be outside of the ring, ultimately. If they don't have this training, it's going to create a very unfocused dog, maybe a dog that's going to start slow and ends fast. Or it might be a dog, like, if you're leaving the toy outside the ring, it might be a dog that just seems over-aroused and unresponsive during parts of the run, but some dogs are going to adjust to that completely. But I'm really big on training it from the start, because there are many dogs that don't adjust to it.

What I do in this class is I teach a remote reinforcement marker cue. Basically, that is a cue that means we are going to reinforcement, whatever that is. I start everyone out with food. For some of the dogs, like my Pose, she is not very reinforced by food. She's fairly reinforced, but the toy is a huge reinforcer for her. And so once you teach the food, you can switch to toys as well.

And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to layer in the training completely by building a strong understanding of how that occurs. The first step to all of that is teaching the dog that the reinforcement is going to happen by moving away from the reward. What the handlers do is, as they move away, which is really hard for people, they're moving away from the reward, they mark it, and then they move back to the reward. I've got a specific way to do it that helps everything.

Interesting enough, this weekend I was watching … this was a UKI trial that I went to this weekend with Differ, and many of the dogs … in UKI you can have, you can go, it's called NFC — Not For Competition — or it's just for exhibition only. You can go in there with dogs and run to a food box. It's an enclosed area where you can put your food in and just periodically run and reinforce your dog. But what I saw handlers do, and this is why it's so confusing to the dog, is they don't tell the dog they're going at all. They just praise them and they run that direction. How confusing is that to the dog, that every time you start moving towards the exit, what you're training them there is that you're going to the food? That's something I feel the dog needs a marker to know that that reinforcement is available. And we go into a lot more detail doing that.

Melissa Breau: I like that. I can certainly see it would be super-confusing for the dog, especially because typically, if you're going to train agility, you go in the room and you're there for a while. You don't just do one run and leave.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Exactly.

Melissa Breau: So I can see how it would be not what the dog is expecting, if that's not your normal routine.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Right. It catches the dogs by surprise. I think at first they're like, "Oh, okay." Dogs figure out quickly that, "Wait a second, all the treats are on this side of the gate, and when I go in, there's nothing. That's not fair." I want to help the dogs learn that it is accessible, but this is how it happens.

Melissa Breau: Not only that, but if the dog loves agility, then the exit starts to mean agility is done, which still doesn't make trials fun.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Right. You have to balance that out for sure, absolutely. If the dogs that really want to do agility, but you still have to give them something for the exit. That's why with Pose, the food wasn't enough, but the toy was. She was used to being reinforced by when I would train with a toy. So it's got to trump agility.

Melissa Breau: While those are all dog skills, or skills the dog will learn in class, I know you also cover a bunch of things that handlers learn throughout the class, so I want to talk about a couple of those too. Why is the learning to plan and organize efficient training sessions particularly important for handlers working towards competing in agility with their dogs?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: I think it's important with all dog sports, but in agility there's so many agility obstacles and so much handling for the dogs to learn in this sport. I really want the handlers to think about what they're trying to teach. I think learning to set up the environment to help break everything down and teach those skills is super-important. And I really want people to understand how a lot of unwanted behaviors can get built into some of the training from the training that they're doing. I want them to really understand that.

I think with some of the things that we work on in class, they start realizing the power of that. Most agility trainers aren't planning their sessions. They just go out and run some sequences, even in the backyard. Even if they have something to do, a lot of times the dog just gets overworked, and it's for the sake of the handler learning things rather than the dog.

I know agility handlers love to sequence their dogs, and many times they do that before the obstacle is even fully trained. That's hard. Obstacles aren't performed. They're not really teaching the dogs to perform the obstacles, like the contacts and weaves and other things, independent from the handler. That ends up biting the handler later on when they've got to babysit the dogs throughout the course. So I really want people to think about breaking things down a little bit more. I think we can layer in a lot more independence by the dog, more commitment to obstacles, things like that, that aren't possible when the handler is babysitting the dog.

The other thing, and I touched a little bit on it when I talked about how I was watching the UKI trial this weekend, when people were running to reinforcement with their dogs, the dogs were learning that motion towards the exit means that the reward is coming, which is not what you really want to teach the dogs, because in agility, many times you're moving towards the exit, in that you're just going to go back onto the course again.

Motion is such a big part of agility. It's super-important for me to ensure that the handlers are not confusing the dogs. I want the communication to be really clear verbal cues, like release cues. I want to make sure that there's no movement or patterns from the handler, those kind of things. So I'm really paying attention to what the handler needs to improve on to help the dog. Every team is going to be slightly different, but we start where they're at and move forward.

Melissa Breau: Makes sense. I know in the description, the line that maybe will catch some folks by surprise, you mentioned that speed is not important during learning. I wanted to take a minute and ask you to elaborate on that and explain what you mean and why that's true.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Thanks for bringing that up, too. It's a great question. It's a huge thing for me. Trainers, humans actually, I think we all naturally want to control the dog first. I'm guilty of that too. It's like we want to help the dog too much, and that's going to include attempts to get the dog more focused, or to rev the lower-energy dog up. I see that a lot, where people are revving the dogs up somehow, trying to get the speed on the dog, because they think about agility it's a fast game and it's about time. We've got to get these dogs working when they're higher and get them revved up and get them faster.

But the dogs have to … if you were ever learning something new, like a software program or something that took a lot of thought … maybe that's a bad example. That's not a movement example. Maybe you were learning a dance — is not a good example for me — and somebody's trying to rush you because it's got to be done at speed. You've got to be doing this faster. That is so hard. You cannot learn that way. I think we end up pushing our dogs into speed traps too quickly and they can't really learn.

I think that it's important for them to learn the obstacles first. As they start learning all these different things, the different positions and independent obstacles, obstacle performance, they become a lot more confident, and that's when the speed picks up. And actually, when speed picks up, then you start seeing some errors because the dogs are moving faster.

We were talking about weaves earlier, before you started recording. Weaves are an issue when the dogs start getting confident that they can fall apart later on. My dogs, they've all been fast, and I've never pushed any of them for speed. It just causes more mistakes, and I don't want that many mistakes in my training. I want a confident dog, and I think with less mistakes, they're going to trust me more.

I don't think any of the dogs really like to be revved up. I don't like to be pushed for more speed either. Some of that's going to cause slow or more careful performances — leaving the handler, sniffing, that kind of thing. Or

if you have a high-energy dog, it can cause them to run in more of a frenetic style. And none of that's desirable. That's why I really want people to think about let's just let the dog go at the speed that they feel comfortable with learning, and then we move on from there.

Melissa Breau: You're talking about dancing or software, but even learning

handling moves, if somebody makes you try and do them fast the first time you're learning them … that's where I'm at with my training, so that's super-fresh in my mind, just trying to learn how to do a front cross for the first time, and not doing it slow is hard.

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Absolutely. There's so many pieces to take in handling. There's so many pieces to the front cross — where are you looking, where are your feet pointing, when is the timing, and all these things to think about. If you do that in real time, you're gong to fail every time for different reasons. But to slow it down and focus on one or two things and build on that success creates a lot more confidence as speed picks up.

Melissa Breau: Absolutely. I think this has covered a lot of ground, but is there anything else you want to share about the class?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Just a couple of things. I do want to mention that I have an awesome teacher's assistant. She's been one of my local students and a long-time student, Heather Sather, and she has helped me with this class for the past year-and-a-half. She's awesome.

The other couple of things I want to mention is there is a lot of material in this class, and it's going to feel like the first few weeks are a bit heavy, but it does slow down a bit. I do set things up for success for the handler and the dog with a lot of background, reading, and things for people to think about and work on.

One other thing, too, is I get a lot of questions about puppies and what the right age is. Obviously I can take young puppies, if they're ready to work.

If they're still really distracted and you're doing a lot of socialization, that's probably not a good move. But usually four months to six months is fairly young. Six months to 2 years is ideal. But there's no reason why a four-month-to-six-month-old can't do this. We probably won't get through all the material, but there's a lot of good stuff we can do, and a lot of really good things to be able to start with these young dogs.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. I want to round out our chat with one last question. If we were going to drill down everything we talked about today into one key piece of information you really wish everybody listening understood, what would that be? How would you pull that out?

Nancy Gagliardi Little: That's a hard one. Training young dogs is so hard anyway. Using these skills, if you zoom into a narrow focus on your dog's training, things are going to move along much faster, especially when you consider the skills that can help your dog learn focus and trust you.

If you're building these skills — obstacle skills, handling skills — from your dog and you don't have the things that can help them cope with different environments and learning, things could crumble down the road. So I want to urge people to give it a chance. I know it's not necessarily completely a sexy way, it's not diving into agility training, but I think once you train this way, you'll never look back.

Things just move along so quickly. I look back at the last year with Differ. She was 4-and-a-half months when I got her, and I spent the time on training her. By the way, she ended up staying with me. She's a foster fail. She's not going anywhere. Looking back on that, everything came so easy after all those were trained, the basic skills were trained. It just flew by. She learned very fast. Sometimes the little pieces that help the dog a lot that have nothing to do with the big picture actually help that big picture evolve faster.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. I think that's a good place to end. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast Nancy!

Nancy Gagliardi Little: Thanks so much for having me.

Melissa Breau: Absolutely. And thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in.

We will be back next week with Julie Symons to chat about how she's evolved her nosework classes over time.

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Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in — and happy training! 


 Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!

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