E157: Emily Strong - "Canine Enrichment for the Real World"

How much do you know about "Enrichment"? Do you know where the term came from? All the different options that fall into the category? This week I talk to Emily Strong about this important (and trendy) topic!

Transcription 

Melissa Breau: Hey guys — Melissa here, stopping in before your podcast to share a little about the FDSA Pet Professionals program.

The average pet dog trainer gets six hours with their clients — one hour a week for six weeks. Make that time count.

The FDSA Pet Professionals program can help. PPP believes in kind, pragmatic, and effective training, and that those three elements can set up dogs and their owners for a lifetime of success.

Its weeklong workshops are just $29.95. So if you're a professional trainer, take a few minutes to check it out at FDSApetprofessionals.com. Again, that's FDSA Pet Professionals.com.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high-quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods.

Our guest this week is Emily Strong.

Emily is an Animal Behavior Consultant with certifications for a number of species through a number of different organizations. She's a Certified Dog Behavior Consultant through the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants (IAABC), a Certified Professional Bird Trainer through the International Association of Avian Trainers and Educators (IAATE), a Shelter Behavior Affiliate (SBA) also through IAABC, and is TAG Teach certified at the primary level.

She's also co-owner of Pet Harmony, LLC, and offers in-person services in Utah, as well as remote services also available through Pet Harmony.

Emily has been in this world for 30 years now, working and volunteering in various animal welfare fields since 1990, including several different shelters and rescue groups; as a vet tech in a wide variety of animal hospitals; in stables, aviaries, and wildlife rehabs; as a pet sitter for animals with medical and behavioral special needs; as a freelance journalist and editor; as a behavior consultant in Utah, and most recently, as co-author of the book Canine Enrichment for the Real World: Making it a Part of Your Dog's Daily Life, which is what we'll focus on today!

Hi Emily. Welcome to the podcast!

Emily Strong: Hello and thank you

Melissa Breau: I'm excited to talk. To get us started, how did you get interested in animal behavior?

Emily Strong: It's funny, because I've always loved animals, and when I was a kid, I always played animal trainer, like, horse trainer. That was my dream job as a child. I trained all my pets as a kid, including every year I would catch a praying mantis, and I trained my praying mantis. But I didn't think it was a possible, a feasible, career, and so my fallback plan was vet school.

I started out volunteering in a vet clinic at a really young age. The trainer who was affiliated with the clinic that I worked at was more traditional, old school, dominance-based methods. I learned those methods and I was very good at them, but over the course of about fifteen or sixteen years, I started to feel some cognitive dissonance as I started to see that the ways in which I was interacting with animals was directly contributing to their fear, or their increased aggression, or just damaging our relationship.

I became really depressed, because I loved animals and they were my whole life, but the ways in which I was interacting with them, I was tired of being the bad guy. My mid- to late 20s were not a good time for me and I wasn't sure what to do with my life. I didn't want to keep hurting animals to help them.

But then I found out about Dr. Susan Friedman and started taking her courses, and it completely changed my life. It just blew my world wide open. I was like, "This is what I want to do for a living. I've always wanted to train animals, and now I know that I can do it in a way that improves my relationship with them and improves their behavioral health, and why would I ever do anything else with my life? This is it." So that's how I ended up here.

Melissa Breau: Going from finding Dr. Susan Friedman to writing a book on canine enrichment — it feels like there should be a little more to that story. Can you share how you went from one to the other?

Emily Strong: I actually am from Austin, and I started behavior consulting in Austin. While I was there, I started, with two of my friends, Austin Parrot Society, which was an information society that became a foster network.

I started implementing some enrichment programs there that were fairly successful, and then I was offered a job to go work at a sanctuary, and so my partner and I moved to Utah.

Allie, my business partner, she and I met at the behavior team at that sanctuary, and she also came from a strong background in enrichment. It was her field of study in college, and she had implemented a lot of enrichment programs in the shelters that she worked with. We worked together, the behavior team, on creating these enrichment programs that were really successful in that sanctuary.

We were just living our life, doing our thing, and enjoying our jobs, and then a friend colleague of mine came back from APDT in 2015, and she said, "Emily, DogWise has been trying to find somebody to write a book on enrichment for ten years. I told them about you, and I think you should write this book."

I was like, "I can't write a book! What are you talking about?" I have really struggled with imposter syndrome. I was like, "Who am I to write a book? I can't do that?" She was like, "Just talk to them. I think you're the perfect person to do this." I was like, "OK."

I spoke to Larry and John at DogWise and we had a really good conversation. I was like, "If I'm going to write a book about enrichment, I can't write this book without Allie. She's my partner in crime and we do all these things together." They were like, "That's fine. We can have two authors. That's cool." So I was like, "Excellent. OK, cool. I feel good about this. I'm going to write this book."

At the end of the conversation, I went, "I should probably tell Allie." So then I went up to Allie and I was like, "By the way, we're writing a book on enrichment for DogWise. I've already committed you to doing it, so you don't have a choice."

I love telling people that story because the whole book is about giving learners choice and control over their outcomes, and the grand irony is that I gave Allie zero choices. I was like, "You're doing this. We're doing this together. You're writing a book with me." So yeah, I'm a hypocrite. I admit it.

Melissa Breau: I like that. That's a neat, fun story to talk about how you got the deal. Before we dive into the book a little bit more, I want to define some terms. When you talk about enrichment, how are you defining that term? What do you mean?

Emily Strong: Thanks for asking that, because that is one of the reasons we that wanted to write the book. Enrichment is not what most people think it is. I think most people think of enrichment as entertaining their animals or making their life better.

I think entertainment and improving their life is a byproduct of enrichment, but enrichment had a serious function in the zoo world. Dr. Hal Markowitz, the man who innovated this concept of enrichment, was doing it to drastically improve the welfare of animals in zoos, based on his research that he had done with wild animals.

The whole concept of enrichment came about from him telling zoos, "We need to make their environments more like nature, so that we can meet their needs, so that they can behave in species-appropriate ways so that they can be animals." Let giraffes be giraffes. Let lions be lions. The whole idea of enrichment was giving these animals the ability to be who they are essentially.

The definition of enrichment, or how we are defining enrichment, is meeting animals' needs in order to empower them to perform species-typical behaviors in safe, healthy, and appropriate ways. Which is a long definition, so we functionally shorten it to "meeting their needs." Just making sure that all of their needs are being met, so that they have the ability to be their best version of themselves.

If we're doing that, then yes, the outcome is they are often entertained and their life is better. But we go about that in a very structured, specific way, where we're looking at measurable progress, and looking at outcomes, rather than the "spaghetti approach," where we're just throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Melissa Breau: In the book, you take it and you break it up into categories. Would you be willing to share an overview of that? How you break it down and why you break it down that way.

Emily Strong: Sure. If we're talking about meeting needs, we have to know what those needs actually are. It's not good enough to feel or believe or think that we're meeting needs.

In fact, this idea of letting dogs be dogs has become a popular buzz term, but the irony of that is that a lot of the beliefs behind that phrase aren't actually true.

It's really important, if we're going to meet needs and if we're going to let dogs be dogs, we have to know what their needs are and we have to know who they are as a species. What does a dog need to be physically, behaviorally, and emotionally healthy?

With that as our goal, we worked backwards from there to create chapters that honed in on those specific needs, what they actually are as opposed to what the cultural thought tells us that they are, and how we can meet those needs. How do we practically do that in our busy lives.

We're breaking them down into … the broad categories are physical needs, emotional or behavioral needs, and then the loosey-goosey term "instinctual needs," which I'm sure a lot of researchers will roll their eyes at our choice to use that term. But what we mean by that essentially is species-typical behaviors. How do they behave in the wild, and what can we do to allow them to behave that way in captivity.

Melissa Breau: One of the first topics you dive into, and you mentioned it earlier when you were talking about your story about getting Allie to write the book with you, is this idea of agency and how that plays into enrichment. So, again, what is agency, and then how DOES it play into enrichment?

Emily Strong: That's a great question. Agency can be defined as providing a learner with control over their outcomes. Giving them choices and the ability to have some control over what happens to them.

Wild and feral animals have agency by virtue of being wild or feral. They have absolute control over their outcomes and the whole buffet of choices available to them that the environment provides. But for animals in captivity or domesticated animals, we have to go out of our way to provide that for them.

It's fine and dandy for us to believe what we believe about having dominion over animals, or being alpha, or whatever, but animals don't know what we believe about why we're doing what we're doing to them. They only know what they're experiencing. So we need to make sure that they have a say in what happens to them, because when we're not giving them that control over their outcomes, by definition it isn't enrichment. If they aren't choosing to engage in their environment and their social interactions and what we're offering them, then it's just a bunch of nice stuff or nice ideas, it's not really enrichment.

So agency isn't really an aspect of enrichment. To me, it's the litmus test of whether or not what we're trying to do is, in fact, enrichment. Are they choosing to interact? Do they have control over that interaction? If so, yes, it's enrichment. If not, then it's just stuff that's happening to them.

Melissa Breau: Is it possible to have too much choice, too much agency?

Emily Strong: Yeah, sure. Safety is an aspect of enrichment, but oftentimes, in order to make sure that they're safe, we have to limit their choices.

My favorite story to illustrate this point is when I was 2 years old, my parents bought a house, and the construction workers had left a box of nails in one of the bedrooms. My parents were moving furniture, and they suddenly realized that I was gone and quiet — never a good thing for a toddler. My dad walked into the room right as I'm about to stick a nail into an outlet. He screamed, "Emily!" and it scared me, and I dropped the nail and I started crying.

That was a really effective strategy for keeping me safe in that moment, but that was not his parenting strategy for teaching me. The way he handled that in the future was not, "I'm going to put Emily by this outlet and give her a box of nails, and every time she tries that, I'm going to scream at her."

But on the other end of that spectrum, his parenting strategy also wasn't, "We've got to give her choices. Let's leave her in the room with a box of nails and hope she makes the right choice." That's not how it works. You can't give them complete control over their outcome.

So what that looked like for him, as a parent, was getting the nails out of my reach and putting outlet covers on the outlets so that I didn't have that choice. I couldn't choose to stick a nail in an outlet, because that would not have gone well for me.

Melissa Breau: I imagine not.

Emily Strong: Definitely not. So that's as true for our non-human family members as it is for children. We have to limit their choices when it comes to safety — their safety and public safety for sure. But if the rest of their life is filled with an abundance of choice and control over their outcomes, those limitations that are necessary are not going to damage their behavioral health.

Melissa Breau: That makes sense. I mentioned that's where the book starts, but from there it works its way through the other categories you mentioned. As much as I'd love to, we can't quite hit on every single piece, but I've pulled out little tidbits that jumped out at me to ask you about. One of those things is — you mentioned this in passing — this idea of safety and security, and the role they play in enrichment, and you noted in the book that they're different in important ways. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Emily Strong: Sure. Think of safety as the act of being protected from harm, and security as the feeling of being protected from harm, or the perception of being protected from harm.

To help suss those two out a little bit more, we can talk about my partner's dog, Copper. When my partner and I first met, Cooper had a lot of fear of new things and different weird things, and one of the things he was scared of was boxes. We know that he was perfectly safe around boxes. He was, in fact, protected from harm because boxes are not going to harm him, but his perception was that he was not safe around boxes, so he didn't feel secure around boxes, even though he was safe.

Conversely, I had a client with a Yorkie who would try to be the fun police to much larger dogs. Anytime her Yorkie saw Great Danes playing, he would try to run in and be like, "You're not supposed to have fun." The Yorkie felt quite secure. He had no problems running up to those playing Great Danes. But we know he wasn't safe, because he could have gotten stepped on or kicked, and he would have been injured because he's a 3-pound micro-dog. He couldn't lay down his little Yorkie law, because even though he felt quite secure, he was not in fact safe.

Those are two different aspects of enrichment. An animal can't be physically and behaviorally and emotionally healthy if they are endangered, but also, animals won't perform the behavioral diversity that is necessary for physical, behavioral, and emotional health if they don't feel safe. In fact, are you familiar with Burghardt's Five Laws of Play?

Melissa Breau: I'm not.

Emily Strong: The Five Criteria for Play? When we're looking at animal behavior and trying to determine whether or not a behavior is play behavior, there's these five criteria for defining play.

The fifth criteria for defining play is that play is only initiated when animals are well fed, healthy, and free from acute or chronic stressors. In other words, if they don't feel safe, it's not play. We don't play when we feel safe. So in order to be behaviorally and emotionally healthy, and perform the behavioral diversity that we want to see in an animal, they need to feel safe. For the most part. Yes, I know we've all seen nature documentaries where animals are being hunted, but that's not what their life looks like all the time. So it is fundamental to enrichment. I think those are very important and often overlooked aspects of enrichment.

Melissa Breau: Like I said, I'm going to ping-pong around here a little bit. In Chapter 6 you mention this idea that often people sort of shrug and assume that some behaviors are just "genetic," but in reality that it's more complicated than that. That, really, it's not so much that behaviors AREN'T genetic; they're modal action patterns — and that was a new phrase for me. So, first, can you say what is a modal action pattern, and then, what do you mean by they're not genetic and they are modal action patterns?

Emily Strong: I wouldn't say that modal action patterns aren't genetic. I mean, they are. Animals within a breed or a species inherit those modal action patterns genetically, through genetics. But what we meant by that when we were talking about that in the book is that it's a lot more complicated than nature versus nurture.

Modal action patterns are unlearned behavior sequences that are typical to a species or a breed, and by "unlearned," we mean they don't need to be taught them by anybody after they're born. They're born knowing how to do it.

These behaviors always happen in a predictable sequence. Once they start, they tend to — unless they're physically stopped in some way, or I guess, psychologically stopped in some way — those sequence of behaviors tend to carry on out to completion.

This thing that we call "prey drive," for example, is a modal action pattern, and that behavior sequence is stalk, chase, catch, kill. Now, we have bred some dogs to not do the kill part, or to not do the stalk part, so we, through breeding, can genetically influence modal action patterns, but the point is that they are unlearned and they are typical to either the breed or the species that we're looking at.

Here's why it's more complex that just nature versus nurture. The thing about modal action patterns is that even though they're an unlearned sequence of behaviors, the context in which those behaviors occur is learned. So if modal action patterns were purely genetic — you know, like, "Maybe it's Maybelline, maybe she's born with it" — if that were the case, then that prey drive modal action pattern would kick in in every dog, in the same context, with the same intensity, always to the same animal.

But that's not what we see. We see that some dogs chase squirrels and don't care about horses. Some dogs chase horses and cattle but don't really care about smaller animals. Some dogs specifically chase rabbits and leave birds alone. Other dogs chase birds and couldn't care less about rodents. Some dogs don't really chase anything. Some dogs chase everything. Some dogs will only chase something if it's shrieking or moving. Other dogs will chase something even if it's trying to freeze and be totally still.

We see a lot of variation in this because the context in which these behaviors are performed are learned contexts, and what that means is we can do something about it.

So it's really important to understand that if an animal has a strong tendency to perform a species-typical behavior that we find in some way a nuisance behavior or a dangerous behavior, we can and should provide safe and appropriate outlets for those behaviors, and prevent them from practicing them in their old contexts, and teach them a different replacement behavior in those old contexts, because if we believe that there's nothing we can do about it, then a lot of times the conclusion to that is just spending a lifetime trying to suppress that behavior. Or sometimes the conclusion is rehoming the animal. Or sometimes the conclusion is euthanasia.

I'm not going to get into the topic of behavioral euthanasia, because it's a huge topic and not really the purpose of today. But I want to say really quickly the caveat is I'm not claiming that there's never a case for behavioral euthanasia. There absolutely is. But a lot of times euthanasia is recommended for things that are really, really malleable. We can do something about it.

And from an enrichment standpoint, if this animal is offering you species-typical behaviors, we should provide safe and appropriate outlets for them to perform those behaviors, instead of constantly getting angry at them for whatever it is that they're doing — chewing on the sofa or barking at the squirrels. Let's give them appropriate outlets for the chewing and the barking, instead of just getting mad at them all the time.

Melissa Breau: I'm glad that you included the caveat in there, because I think that there are a number of people who are listening who that's a sensitive spot for them. So I think that's really helpful. Another thing that jumped out at me in the book was the content on social structures in dogs. Again, you teased the alpha theory a little bit earlier. I think our audience in particular is probably pretty aware that that theory has been pretty much debunked when it comes to dogs, but it really sounds like there's been a fair amount of research done since then on what social structure actually IS like, both in wolves and then in dogs. I know this is a big question, but can you talk us through some of that? What some of that research is and what it looks like?

Emily Strong: Let's just do a Reader's Digest version, because it's a huge topic. Reader's Digest version is that dominance does exist in dogs, but not in the way that cultural thought or pop culture talks about, with these rigid hierarchies based on conflict, where you've got to be the biggest dude to get to be the alpha. That's not what dominance actually looks like. In dogs, hierarchies exist, but they are fluid, contextual, and temporary. They are among specific individuals, and it's about controlling specific resources.

I think this is funny because I've had many, many clients tell me, "I can't figure out who's the alpha in the house, because Gigi always eats first, but Fluffy gets to decide who sleeps in bed and who doesn't, and Fido really controls the toy box, so I think we have a problem in our house that our dogs don't know who's alpha, and we need to establish this pack." I'm like, "They've got it all worked out. They've decided who controls access to which resource and there's no conflict. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. There isn't a problem here."

I think one of the most important things to understand that is in direct conflict with the cultural thought about dominance is that a dominant/submissive paradigm only exists in stable relationships where deference is given. It's not taken. If there is that really good "We've all sussed out who controls what," it's because that relationship is strong and clear, and every animal has this good relationship with each other.

Conflict over resources indicates insecure individuals in unstable relationships, which is ironic, because everybody who has been taught that alpha dog paradigm is going around forcing alpha roles on dogs, thinking that they're saying, "I'm the boss," when what they're actually communicating is, "I'm insecure and we don't have a stable relationship," which cracks me up.

No judgment, no criticism, because been there, done that, got that T-shirt. Like I said, I trained that way for sixteen years, so I'm not making fun of individual people. But I think it is funny that when we rely on myths, we end up often communicating the opposite of our intentions.

The other thing that is very important is that there's not a lot of evidence that dogs are pack animals. Intra-specific cooperation, which just means cooperation among members of the same species, is not innate in dogs. The studies that they've done show that dogs don't really understand how to coordinate like a pack does, and more often than not, feral dogs will only pack up during breeding season. Otherwise, the rest of the year, they're living alone or just in pairs.

I think this is important, and the reason we devoted a huge chunk of the social chapter of the book to talking more in-depth about this is because if we are trying to meet our dog's social needs, and if we are trying to enrich them, but we're carrying these beliefs with us about pack animals and alpha dogs and stuff, then the ways in which we're trying to meet those needs are often inappropriate.

For example, if we believe that dogs are pack animals and they have to be socialized or social, and we're cramming a bunch of dogs into a playgroup to make them play and make them be social, what is that actually doing for them? What is the outcome of that when these dogs aren't particularly dog-social, and they don't want to play with a bunch of other dogs, and they don't enjoy it, and they don't feel safe, and they're not in fact playing.

We think we're going a very good job of enriching them, when in fact we are kind of torturing them. So it's a big deal to know this stuff. How can we meet their needs if we don't know what their social needs are?

Melissa Breau: For those who are listening who want to go look up some of the studies and some of the information, it is all in the book and it's in Chapter 8. That's where they get into that stuff. I could talk to you about this stuff all day, but I'm sure you have other things going on in your life, and I know it's late in the evening for both of us, so I've got one more question on the book and then three questions I usually ask at the end the first time I have somebody on. My question for you is where can folks go for the book? And then, I know you're doing a webinar for us at FDSA on this stuff, so can you share a little but about what you'll get into there?

Emily Strong: You can find the book on Amazon, in paperback or also on Kindle, and if you want to support small businesses, you can buy it directly from DogWise.com. DogWise also sells it either as a paperback book or an e-book. So four options for buying the book.

As for the webinar, I'm really excited to have this opportunity to do this webinar for FDSA, because while Allie and I were writing the book, we realized that explaining the what and the why in the book was only half of the picture for helping people to implement these concepts.

In our last chapter, which is called "Putting It All Together," we introduce this idea of an enrichment chart to objectively assess what are our enrichment goals, and how are we implementing them, and are they achieving our intended effect. We implement this chapter and the S.P.I.D.E.R. protocol in that last chapter, but it became clear that we couldn't help people with implementation within the limitations of a single chapter like that, so we set out to create resources to help people utilize enrichment in a variety of ways. We've created some resources for pet owners, professionals, and sheltering organizations, and this webinar is one of the resources we've created for pet owners.

We see a lot of our clients working really hard to enrich their dogs, but then feeling frustrated or discouraged because their dogs still have some unmet needs, which makes them feel like they have to do even more, and work even harder, like their best is never good enough. How demoralizing is that? So the webinar is going to be focusing on more is not necessarily better. We can work smarter, not harder, by finding efficient, sustainable, and fun ways to meet all of our dogs' needs without putting all of our eggs in just one or two enrichment baskets and working really, really hard at those one or two things. And, better yet, we can improve our relationship with our dogs by doing so.

That's what the webinar is going to be about essentially — understanding enrichment and using it to make our dogs' lives better, our lives better, and improve our relationship with our dogs. People who listen to the webinar will have access to a free resource on how to do this with the enrichment chart and how to use it and stuff like that. So we're really, really excited about this webinar.

Melissa Breau: I've got three questions here that I usually ask at the end. The first one: What is the training-related accomplishment that you're proudest of?

Emily Strong: Honestly, when I think about it, the thing I'm proudest of has nothing to do with dogs or big, complicated behavior issues. I think my proudest moment was a couple of summers ago when I realized that I could train the wasp in my backyard.

I know it sounds funny, but I had this moment when I realized I could train this wasp to station away from the faucet so that I could water my plants without being afraid of the wasp or having to kill the wasp.

I've been afraid of wasps my whole life, but then I observed that this little guy was just trying to get water. It was hot and dry and he was thirsty. I was like, "What if I use water to reinforce him flying to this dish instead of the faucet?" It only took about a week or two, and then every time I'd go out in the yard, he'd see me and fly over to his little dish and wait for water, so I could get to the faucet to water my plants without getting into a conflict with this wasp. That was a huge accomplishment for me. I know it sounds silly, but training a wild wasp was, I think, my proudest moment.

Melissa Breau: That's pretty cool. I like that. My next question: What's the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard?

Emily Strong: I'm sure I'll think of something brilliant at 3 in the morning, but right now I think probably the best advice I heard was from one of my mentors when I was first learning how to become a behavior consultant.

She could see I was beating myself up for the training mistakes I was making. She said, "Don't worry about being imperfect in training. When you realize that training is a conversation and you're listening to your learner, they'll tell you when they don't understand what you're asking them. And then you can ask them, 'Does this make more sense?' They can say yes or no, and you just keep having that conversation until you both reach your end goal."

That really helped me to stop being such a perfectionist and beating myself up, and just enjoy the conversation. I don't think training would be as fun for me if I hadn't gotten that advice and if I was still stuck on being perfect. So I think that's my answer for now.

Melissa Breau: I think that's a pretty good answer. Last one: Who is somebody else in the training world that you look up to?

Emily Strong: I can't not mention Dr. Friedman, because she's been there for me throughout my whole journey over the past twelve years. She chides me for being hyperbolic, but I'm not being hyperbolic when I say that she saved my life. I was not in a good place when I started learning from her, and she opened up the whole world for me. So definitely her.

And of course Ken Ramirez. Hashtag: life goals. Especially his work with wildlife and insects, because I grew up training praying mantises, and I had this experience training a wasp. I look up to him so much for stuff like that. But aside from the giants in our field, I think a person I really, really look up to a lot is a bird trainer named Helen Dishaw. She's the curator at Tracy Aviary here in Salt Lake City, and her training is so elegant. You think about the fact that she is working with wild animals, they're not domesticated species, and they are free-flighted, and it looks so effortless when she does it. I've watched a lot of bird trainers in my life, and it's so effortless with her.

She has such an incredible joy that translates. Everybody can see that joy. She has the most incredible bond with these birds. And her insights — she's just very insightful. Every time I talk to her, I come away with something new. If you ever come to Salt Lake, you need to go to Tracy Aviary and watch one of her bird shows. She has a lot to teach all of us. She's my hero for sure.

Melissa Breau: Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast Emily!

Emily Strong: Thanks for having me.

Melissa Breau: And thank you to our listeners for tuning in! We'll be back next week with Denise Fenzi to talk about the circle method for loose leash walking, camp, and tease a few new things on the horizon!

Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. 

Credits

Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!

The Science of Play: Playing Your Way to Success
Positive Connections with Positive Trainers: Build...