What's really going on when a dog competes in the breed ring? Ashley breaks down what judges look for, what we can do to help present our dogs in the best light, how training helps, and what the handler's job is, when competing in conformation.
Transcription
Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today I'll be talking to Ashley Escobar about training for and competing in canine Conformation. Hi, Ashley, welcome back to the podcast.
Ashley Escobar: Hi Melissa, thanks for having me. Excited to chat.
Melissa Breau: To start us out, do you just want to remind everybody kind of a little bit about you?
Ashley Escobar: Yep. I'm Ashley and I teach online with Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Conformation classes, conditioning classes and some agility classes. I teach in person as well as online and share my home with five dogs. Two are my children's. My daughter has a border collie and my son has an Australian shepherd. And I have two border collies and an Australian shepherd.
Melissa Breau: Awesome. So I wanted to talk about Conformation today, so I'd love to have you give us kind of a deeper understanding for the uninitiated on what Conformation actually is. Can you talk about what types of factors the judges are actually evaluating in the Conformation ring?
Ashley Escobar: Yes. So every for American Kennel Club specific, that is my primary venue, there is a breed standard for every breed that is shown in a Conformation ring.
And the breed standard is just what it says it is. It's just a guideline of what your dog, what physical traits and personality traits your dog should possess per the breed overview of what we want to see in that dog. And so Conformation is an opportunity for competitors, whether they're professional handlers or owner handlers, to go in the ring before a judge and present the best version of their dog, where the dog is groomed to show all of their attributes and minimize their flaws and get a chance to really showcase their dog.
There's a lot more to it than what it looks like. If you see it on the ring, it just looks like some left handed circles and then the judge petting the dog. But there's method behind all of the maneuvers that happen in the Conformation ring. And it is literally an under three minute evaluation of a dog that the judge gets to have with that share with that dog and give their honest opinion of how they feel. That dog ranks in accordance to the breed standard for the judge for the breed that they're judging.
Melissa Breau: So of those pieces you kind of talked about that there's a lot of different things kind of happening. What bits of that are you training for? What's kind of just like genetic, the package you got, what you got, it all is you got what you got. But there are some things that you can do to enhance your dog's features and attributes and bring out their best.
Ashley Escobar: Right. So. So we can take a dog that might be a little soft in their top line. For example, if you were to look at your dog standing and their back has a very subtle dip in it, that dog would be a little soft in their top line or maybe they're a little soft in their rear in a balanced stand. So there are certain exercises that we can do where we can condition the dogs to build the muscles in those targeted areas to create a dog that no longer has a soft top line or no longer has a soft rear with their chest and just their muscular structure.
There are certain exercises we can do to tighten up certain areas of their body so that when they move in one of their gaited patterns, we can help alleviate a little bit of leg movement like left or right when we want to see just a straight tracking for a dog for that breed. There's also things that you do as the handler. Some dogs look better moving fast and some dogs look better moving slow.
Everything is moved at a trot in the show ring, but there are different speeds of a trot. So some of my dogs look best with a very slow and steady trot on a down and back, but on their side gait, a very fast trot. So that you can really show that they have the reach and the drive for their breed. So there's lots of components of showing your dog that you have to know how to bring out all of their best.
There are times that you could just take a brand new person and take a dog and put them in the ring and it might just all the pieces fall into place, but that's probably going to be few and far between because there's really a lot of intentional placement of feet and a lot of intentional leash pressure and types of leashes that you use and the types of brushes that you use.
If you have a dog that has coat and products and stuff, so much preparation that goes into presenting your dog for a. I hate the word beauty pageant for this, but a lot of it is because you are really trying to minimize flaws and non breed standard traits in your dog and bring forward and highlight all of the true breed standard traits that your dog does possess.
Melissa Breau: For people who maybe have never read a breed standard, I know this wasn't on my list of prepped questions for you, but can you just give us an idea like what types of things we're talking about?
Ashley Escobar: So like, you know the things that come to mind for me are like, okay, we've got some specifications, maybe around movement, around head shape, it goes. So breed standard for AKC, and this is actually a lot of fun if you've never done it, you can take your breed and type it in Google and ask for the AKC breed standard for the Belgian Malinois or the Australian Shepherd. And it's going to give you the American Kennel Club version of what that breed should look like and what certain personality they should possess in the ring too.
Because all of things like, come full circle when they go into the judge's ring. For example, Australian Shepherds, they are not what's considered a head breed, but they are supposed to have button ears, they can have rose shaped ears, they cannot have prick ears. Right. Their ears cannot stand up like a border Collie. Does that make or break them? It might to some judges. Some judges really like the way that the head shape looks.
Australian Shepherds are supposed to have almond shaped eyes. So does the dog have almond shaped eyes or are they more round? Are they very small? They're supposed to have 42 teeth in their mouth. When you go to show the bite, are they missing teeth? Like, you have to know all of these things about your dog. Like, knowing your dog's flaws is just as important as knowing all of the attributes and traits that they possess that are matched within breed standard.
But some of the other things for breed standard are going to be how the dog moves. Do they have a lot of reach and drive on their side gait or do they move with a lot of animation with their front, front feet? Do they have a flat top line or are they supposed to have a flat top line? Are they supposed to have more of a roach to back an arched back like a whippet breed or a sighthound tail set?
How is the tail set on the dog? Is it set a little high? Is it set a little low? Do we have more of a steep croup? So there's lots of angles and angulation and anatomy that goes into your breed standard. And every breed is typically within somewhere earshot of the breed standard. Right. Like, there really is no perfect dog, but how close to that breed standard can the dog be presented in that moment? Right. Because again, there's things that we can do to help bring our dog's best paw forward when we take them in the ring.
Melissa Breau: Can you talk a little more about the handler role in the ring? The handler role is really important. I get a lot of people that are often afraid to take their own dog in the ring because they feel like it has to be a professional handler.
And I will tell you, I've always handled my own dogs. My kids handle their own dogs in the ring. Like, it 100% does not have to be a professional handler, but you do have to know certain things. You do have to know again, your breed standard very well. You need to understand what tools, leash and collar are going to make your dog move their best when they're in the ring.
So again, the dog is judged on gaiting in a couple of manners. They're judged on a group around the ring where the judge is looking at their side profile, their side movement, their side gate. So they're wanting to see reach and drive. And every breed is going to have a different variation of how much reach and drive they should have. They're also then going to look at the dog one on one for their exam.
And part of that exam includes watching the dog trot away and then trot back to the judge. So the handler plays a really big role because can the handler move the dog in a straight line? That is way harder than it sounds. Teaching people to move their dog in a straight line. So many times I have people that will in in person Conformation classes and it's like, okay, we're going to do our down and back.
Take your dog down to the corner and then come back and they line themselves up perfectly. For me, when like, I'm like, your gait is beautiful. Like, I could not see anything about your dog. Right. So being able to control your nerves and you know, cause it's such a short amount of time, I mean literally just like a minute you get of that judge's undivided attention and there's little things that you can do that can help you kind of stand out a little bit more and make sure that the judge is really getting a good look at your dog in the ring instead of just doing the bare minimum when it comes to show, because you literally are showing your dog like so you have to have a certain amount of showmanship when you go into the ring for your dog.
Melissa Breau: What do you mean by showmanship in that? In that instance?
Ashley Escobar: I think that the way that you present your dog and making eye contact with the judge and just having some unspoken interaction with the judge matters because it gets the judge to give you a second look. So if I'm moving my dog around the ring, I am definitely going to be looking back at the judge at different checkpoints as we're moving around.
I will never just take my dog around the ring and never look back at the judge. You feel when someone looks at you and it, there's, it will bring them back to your direction. It lets them know that you're paying attention to them. Like they might point and call you out of the group. And if you're not paying attention, then you're going to miss that number one. And number two, you're like, hey, like my dog is the best dog here.
Like get, bring, bring your eyes back over here to this dog that I'm showing. I mean, so you have to have a little bit of, of showmanship when you go in there into the ring.
Melissa Breau: Okay. So we talked a little bit about the idea of some conditioning outside the ring. So how can working on, you know, balance and stance and that self awareness outside of the competition ring actually help the dog perform better in the ring?
I think it is a game changer between being in the ribbons and just donating points to the rest of the competitors. To be very honest, it matters if your dog is in shape. It really does because you can do all of the fancy grooming with a double coated breed, for example. And you could have two dogs next to each other, two Australian Shepherds and they're both groomed to the nines.
Like they both look like they've got really strong muscular top lines. They've got a nice, strong, stable rear. They're very balanced, nice amount of bone. Like almost identical dogs. And then you go to put your hands on the dog and when you go to go over the top line of the dog, you know, dog a kind of shifts their weight a little bit. Not, not in an uncomfortable manner, but just their kind of balance is now being questioned.
As you start putting a little pressure and move weight, shifting their body a little bit, they're unable to hold that stand or you get in there and you feel, well, the layback of shoulders on this dog is not really set in an ideal position. This dog is, has a little more of a straight front end when really we should have a little more angulation to match the rear or we feel poor muscle anatomy on the dog as we go through.
And then you come over to dog B that really, you know, in the big picture, profile wise looks exactly like dog A. But on dog B it's like, wow. Like this dog has a really nice layback of shoulder. It complements the bend of stifle. And this dog is very well muscled and did not move a millimeter when I went over it. Not because it's trained to just be stagnantly still.
But because the dog possesses the ability to stand in a balanced square stand and maintain their even distribution of weight during that exam, that is a really strong, solid dog that would hold up all day in field work. Dog A is going to need breaks. It's not going to be able to cut it. Like, we're going to have some laying down, we're going to have some checking out of work.
Like, they're just not physically going to be up for herding sheep all day long. Right. Because these are herding dogs. So we have to think about what the dogs were bred for as part of their breed standard as well, and make sure that they are physically fit for that. I think that's an interesting point that I think often doesn't get, you know, kind of talked about much. Just the fact that, you know, the idea of being able to do what they were originally bred for is probably part of that and should be kind of thought through.
You know, just like it. It should really be looked at more. And I did a… I did a webinar a few months ago and it was on a class of labs. Like, we were discussing the anatomy of the labs and all. It was a group of juniors and all of the labs looked very similar, but there were two labs in the group that did not have the big paddle tails.
And they are supposed to have these big broad at the base paddle tails, like they're swimmers. Right. So the one junior said, well, I'm just. I wouldn't pick those two because they have skinny tails. Like, she knew it had something to do. Everything else about these dogs was they were so such a matched group, but it was the tail for both of them, and a lot of the kids missed that.
But these two, these one, two juniors in particular, they were like, their tails are skinny, so they just look funny. Like they didn't really understand all of the why, but they were like piecing the dog together and looking at the breed standard and so it, like, registered to them. So I think it's really important that whatever, whatever your breed is, that you show that you really understand what they were bred for.
And especially when we get into these working dogs and herding dogs, like, they were bred to do a physically demanding job, so they really should be conditioned for it. Even if they never see sheep, they should be conditioned to be able to go out there and physically hold up all day. Yeah, there's so much to that. Like the paddle tail example, I think it just, it can take a lot of work to really kind of train your eye and teach your eye how to notice those types of things.
Right. And then not just to notice them, to be able to, you know, you see the thing and you're like, there's something about that and being able to actually tell you verbalize, like, what it is.
Melissa Breau: So do you have any tips for kind of improving the handler's eye when it comes to Conformation?
Ashley Escobar: I think first and foremost, of course, the breed standard, you have to know it inside and out, exactly what it is that the dogs are supposed to look like.
And then you have to put your hands on the dog, like looking at them, like I said, because there's so many tricks that can be done with hair and product and so forth. And in AKC, you're allowed to put product on your dog. You know, it's not frowned upon. And sculpting with scissors and, you know, fixing their hair the way that it should be, but being able to put your hands on the dog and really feel and assess where the dog's layback of shoulder is and really feel where their, their front arm.
Right. Is it shorter? You know, do they have an anatomically balanced front end and rear end? Like, do they have a ton of layback shoulder and they have a very straight rear. That's a dog that's not going to hold up as well as a dog that had a straight front and a straight rear. Right. Like, we would rather see just symmetrical balance than we would to see these really drastic front end, rear end pieced together on dogs.
So really being able just to feel the core parts on the dog and identify muscular strength and structure on dogs for when they're just at a stand. Right. Because it does take a lot of energy just to stand. They're balanced with good posture, these show dogs. Um, it's, it's hard. I tell people all the time, I'm like, can you imagine? Like, you just go, you, you move at a trot or a very brisk walk and then stop and stand with good posture.
Like, don't move. You can't be fidgeting, you can't be moving your feet. You just stop and you know, shoulders back, abs in, head up, arms down. You're just in really good posture. Like, it takes a lot to do. Um, and that's what we're asking of the dogs in the show ring. So there's a lot of conditioning that should be going into our show dogs for that.
Melissa Breau: Yeah, I think maybe, you know, kind of the classic way in Conformation is to have like some sort of a breed mentor or at least a mentor, you know, in the sport as a whole. And that's how a lot of people, at least I think, kind of get into it. Right. Do you have any tips for how folks they're interested in learning more about Conformation can maybe find somebody local to them who might be willing to meet them at a show or have some conversations and kind of mentor them a little bit?
Ashley Escobar: Yeah, absolutely. If you purchase your dog from a breeder and your breeder is maybe involved in showing, they would be the first point of contact that I would recommend.
And if not, you could look up any AKC has an event finder and you can look up events near you and find a Conformation event and just go and find the breed, you know, walk around. They have every breed represented. You can go to the rings and sit ringside and someone will talk to you, someone will help educate you. People love to talk about their dogs, so somebody will be more than happy to kind of point you in the right direction.
Especially if you're like breed shopping, like, right, that's. I tell everyone, go to a show, find the breed that you are really in love with and really learn about it. Like, learn about what they were bred to do, learn about what they are supposed to look like. And there's tons of, like, trial chairs and just people involved in putting on these big shows. They're very helpful. And AKC, I want to say that they even have a Conformation mentorship link now on their website.
I thought I just saw something there. It might have been at Rokain. It might be something that's rolling out. I know we talked about it at one of the meetings we had down in Orlando at the big event every December, but there's just, there's events everywhere, there's Conformation shows everywhere. So it's such a good opportunity just to go meet new people and mingle with some dog people and learn some stuff.
Melissa Breau: What's the best way if you already have a dog that you're kind of doing this with or you're kind of a newbie, but you're. You're playing with some of this stuff to get really good honest feedback about your own dog's kind of strengths and weaknesses?
Ashley Escobar: If you can find a handling class that's near you or find something online from someone, again, your breeder would be my first point of contact to really.
And the breeder themselves should be able to give you a very good, honest overview of your dog's structure for the breed ring. Obviously, not every dog is champion material. Right. For showing in the Conformation ring. So being able to have someone give you that really honest feedback on your dog and knowing your dog's weaknesses, it's huge. Like that's the first, first thing that I'm looking at when I breed and raise dogs and grow them up for potential showing.
Like I want to see where they're weak and see how that changes the trajectory as I grow them up and if it's something that I'm going to be able to deal with if I did want to keep this dog in my breeding program, for example, and then breed them later on or are their weaknesses something that is would be detrimental to the breed standard and they would not be eligible to show and compete in that manner.
Melissa Breau: So we're talking about this stuff because you've got a class on it in February. Do you want to share a little more about the class? Maybe who might want to sign up.
Ashley Escobar: Yes. So the class is all about teaching new people or people that maybe their dog is new to the Conformation breed ring. And it is laced with conditioning exercises specifically for the Conformation dog. So we do go into getting the handler's ring ready too because again, I'm a huge encourager and supporter of owner handler.
And so I want the humans to feel empowered and have the knowledge, which I think knowledge is power to take their dog in the ring and present their dog in the best manner possible for Conformation showing. Even if it's just a B match and something fun that's not going to count. I want people to have that experience with their dog. The exercises, conditioning exercises that I have picked for Conformation dogs are pretty standard for what would be required of your.
What I'm going to just say every dog that is getting ready to go into the Conformation ring. Right. Like we don't have any, we're not really competing in sports. So we're not like let's first say looking to tighten up turns or have faster takeoff speed. Right. Like we're looking for a just a general, honest, maintenance type conditioning program for this dog that's going to focus on their front, core and rear and give them the ability to train them all throughout this to have a free stack and to be able to be hand stacked and hold that balance stand while the judge goes over them for the exam and so forth. So it's kind of a lot of content packed into one class here, but we have a lot of fun.
Melissa Breau: That's awesome. Anything else on the calendar right now you want to mention?
Ashley Escobar: I have my "Build a Custom Conditioning Plan for Your Performance Dog." So different than the Conformation class, obviously, because this is going to be for dogs where we're really wanting to tighten up lines or increase speed or have just longevity and injury prevention.
And we go through and take base exercises and then for the working spots, we build on those base exercises so that we can customize them to that dog's needs and sport specifically. And I'm pretty excited about the new Silver pilot program that's been rolled out because there's so many fun things that we get to work with now with the Silver folks. So that's pretty cool.
Melissa Breau: Yeah, it's nice being able to actually see what they're working on a little more and get some more regular check ins there for sure.
Ashley Escobar: Yeah, I'm excited.
Melissa Breau: Anything on kind of either front that you want to leave folks with as we wrap up here? Last minute, key minute points.
Ashley Escobar: If you think that Conformation might be something that you're just interested in learning more for, it's an experience. Right. It's not something where people, I think sometimes people have this misconception that they have to go to Westminster. Right. Like they have to just go all out and do all the things.
It's really a lot of fun and it can be a lot of fun for your dogs too. And such a great chance to bond, build with your dog and just get this nice working rapport with your dog. I have a lot of dogs that go from low engagement and working in their sport and folks then are like, I'm just going to work on their Conformation stuff now. And then they do all of the things and it's like all of a sudden now this dog is super engaged in work.
So I, there's a lot of connection there with building that rapport with your dog, getting the engagement and getting the work history with your dog with something that is not high impact, high arousal, sport type stuff. Again, we have a lot of fun with teaching them the different things in Conformation. And it's also on the flip side, it gives you a phenomenal Stand For Exam for the obedience ring.
Just saying. All of my Conformation dogs go on to compete in obedience because we have that box checked and double checked. I can go to the end of a 25 foot lead and have the dog just show, as I call it. And the dog is going to stand there in this beautiful free stack stand and the judge can come and go over the dog for days. So the layering over of sports that you get from Conformation I think gets overlooked sometimes by the flashy clothes and the little leashes and stuff.
But it's a great way to build a positive CER for the ring, man, let me tell you. It really is because you get to use bait in the Conformation ring. So the show dogs are like, man, I got this. I'm about to get a piece of bacon or a piece of chicken here. And then by the time you get over to obedience, they're like, I'm getting paid. At some point, I'm getting paid for this big time. So it's really, really a lot of fun to watch it come full circle with that.
Melissa Breau: Couldn't agree more. All right, well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast to talk about this, Ashley. I really appreciate it. All right, and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We'll be back next week. Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in itunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available.
Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty free by Benson.com the track featured here is called Buddy. Audio Editing provided by Chris Lang. Thanks again for tuning in and happy training.
Credits
Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called "Buddy." Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.
Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!